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20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here? 20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here?

10-14-2009 , 06:19 AM
iPoker Network $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $20.00
BTN: $24.20
SB: $27.56
BB: $43.14
Hero (UTG): $25.79

Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero is UTG with Q Q
Hero raises to $0.80, CO calls $0.80, 1 fold, SB calls $0.70, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.60) 7 2 4 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.20, CO raises to $9.20, SB calls $9.20, Hero ???


Very small sample size for both opponents, possibly was even smaller when this hand occured. But relevant stats are as follows - CO is 26/19/5 over 42 hands, the SB is 17/11/2 over 47 hands.

Hm, now that I write that I realise that the sample size is small enough that both opponents are basically unknowns but at the time I didn't feel great about stacking off versus 2 opponents here. When the CO thought for a while and raised my cbet I really wasn't worried at all (what could he be raising so big on such a safe flop except a bluff?) and was getting ready to shove over his raise, but when the SB just flatted such a big raise OOP it threw me off. Would he really flat call a bet and a raise OOP with 88-JJ? Or even a bare 7, like 67s or 78s?

If I had bet, the CO called and the SB had c/raised both of us I would have probably found a fold without too much trouble given how strong a line a c/raise into 2 opponents is. But if SB thought he was still ahead with a weak overpair at this point surely he should just have shoved then, as he's OOP and risks overcards falling. To me the flat call just screamed that he wasn't at all worried about being outdrawn and was hoping to lure me into calling the CO's raise as well.

But all that said, I do realise that there are only really 3 hands I'm scared of in this spot - 77, 22 and 44, of which there are only 9 combinations in total left in the deck... Is this a WA/WB situation? Given how few hands beat me, how terrible is folding here? If I do decide to shove into both villains my read on the CO might still be wrong, and he might be the one with a set. Thoughts?

Last edited by Acetylcholine; 10-14-2009 at 06:30 AM.
20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here? Quote
10-14-2009 , 08:35 AM
looks like a spot to make a good fold to me
20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here? Quote
10-14-2009 , 08:36 AM
sometimes they will show you 88 and 99, or A7/87 vs 99 bot nothing to worry about, I think most of teh time you are beat.
20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here? Quote
10-14-2009 , 08:53 AM
Fold.
20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here? Quote
10-14-2009 , 10:14 AM
Fold quickly.
20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here? Quote
10-14-2009 , 10:31 AM
My first instinct would be to shove, but I have trouble in these spots so I'd like to pick the brains of everyone saying fold.

First off, if the SB were not in this hand, and the action went bet and CO raise, we'd have no problem stacking off against a single opponent here, right?

Secondly, we like a fold because of the combination of COs raise and SBs cold-call of the two bets, not just COs raise?
20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here? Quote
10-14-2009 , 10:35 AM
against two opponents, who look not really bad ,fold is good here I think
20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here? Quote
10-14-2009 , 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nofxsi210
My first instinct would be to shove, but I have trouble in these spots so I'd like to pick the brains of everyone saying fold.

First off, if the SB were not in this hand, and the action went bet and CO raise, we'd have no problem stacking off against a single opponent here, right?

Secondly, we like a fold because of the combination of COs raise and SBs cold-call of the two bets, not just COs raise?
We like a fold because
1) players don't seem to be completely incompetent
2) there's a reraise on a dry flop into two people
3) there's an overcall by a very tight player
4) 2) and 3) happened after a UTG raiser has shown strength by betting the flop into two people on a dry flop, which makes 2) and 3) even stronger
20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here? Quote
10-14-2009 , 01:23 PM
Wow I'm glad everyone is saying to fold because that's what I did although at the time I wasn't completely happy with it.

Here's how the rest of the hand turned out for anyone who's interested...
Spoiler:
iPoker Network $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $20.00
BTN: $24.20
SB: $27.56
BB: $43.14
Hero (UTG): $25.79

Pre Flop: ($0.30) Hero is UTG with Q Q
Hero raises to $0.80, CO calls $0.80, 1 fold, SB calls $0.70, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.60) 7 2 4 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.20, CO raises to $9.20, SB calls $9.20, Hero folds

Turn: ($23.20) J (2 players)
SB checks, CO checks

River: ($23.20) T (2 players)
SB bets $11.60, CO folds

Final Pot: $34.80
SB wins $33.64
(Rake: $1.16)


...So it looks to me like my initial analysis of the situation was correct, that CO was bluffraising and full of it and the SB had a very strong hand and was hoping to trap everyone else.
Thanks for the input to all who responded.
20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here? Quote
10-14-2009 , 01:28 PM
fold is the right call here given what you posted. i used to call/shove these situations until I learned the hard way.
20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here? Quote
10-14-2009 , 03:05 PM
i don't think even the fishiest of fish are calling this with A7 or 88.
20NL: QQ UTG gets 2 callers - SB c/c a big raise OOP on low board, can I still be good here? Quote

      
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