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06-30-2010 , 12:19 AM

#26

I_LI_Jl

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 530

Quote:

Originally Posted by Never Win

if our range is polarized and he thinks we are bluffing enough then he should just call, he wont turn his hand into a bluff unless he has air(not likely). Also, he is risking a lot to win not so much. If he is a good reg, he knows this play can't be profitable w/ air/bluff. No way he thinks we fold greater than 50% of the time and no way he thinks we fold a 5.

+1

Villain never has air here, and almost no villain will turn 2 pair into a bluff.

Also, even if you're polarized to a 5(although I don't think you are), I am not sure a "good reg" would shove here, as a lot of players, and every fish, will call 5. Which is conversely the reason why shoving 10 9 is better than raising smaller.

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06-30-2010 , 12:50 AM

#27

hobokes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 6,344

Quote:

Originally Posted by urubu111

easy call imo, because if he had T9 he wouldn't c/c flop AND turn because obv its a terrible play. (and you said he is good..) same for T9cc....

i think he is turning made hands (A7, 98 etc) into a bluff because he also wouldn't shove for value hands like 75s or A5cc.

Not all people will check-raise T9o at 1/2. Not saying that is good. Just saying not everyone will do it.

bullmarket -
What are his Vpip/pfr from the button? If he is tight/aggr (30/18) , we can eliminate 95s/95o potentially ....

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06-30-2010 , 01:14 AM

#28

I_LI_Jl

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 530

I don't see anything wrong with calling 10 9 two streets here. He can bluff flush if he has 109o and value bet the straight as here, or even possibly a 10 or a 9. Effectively he should have 21 outs that he can either bluff or value bet.

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06-30-2010 , 01:20 AM

#29

magnanimity

grinder

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 553

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobokes

Not all people will check-raise T9o at 1/2. Not saying that is good. Just saying not everyone will do it.

Well what happened the other time he crai? Like has he crai and you reraise, or snap call and put pressure on him ott? Does he think you are super agro? There could be solid reasons to not crai 109 here.

EDIT: not meaning you hobokes of course, but OP... Anyways I'm a couple bubbley pops past fully coherent so hope I made a solid point here

Last edited by magnanimity; 06-30-2010 at 01:23 AM. Reason: I'm drunk

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06-30-2010 , 02:12 AM

#30

hobokes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 6,344

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnanimity

yah i mean, you don't have to CR T9o here 100% of the time

and some peoples games at 1/2 will CR T9o here literally 5-10% only

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06-30-2010 , 02:33 AM

#31

moose stuff

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,260

I think it's way more likely this is T9 played "deceptively" expecting to get paid by a 5 close to 100% of the time than it's a marginal hand turned bluff to fold everything but T9...

imo a goooood reg would size smaller on the river w/ T9 ($235-275ish) and I doubt this guy is that good. This just seems like a jizz in my pants I have the nuts which he won't expect me to have too often/he can't fold a straight so I shove for max value type hand.

(maybe some of that made sense)

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06-30-2010 , 03:03 AM

#32

hobokes

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 6,344

yah, this really comes down to what you know/think about your villian

if you are 1-tabling, this could be a trivial call/fold
but if you are 5-6 tabling, 5 different guys at 1/2, this could be a very tough spot

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06-30-2010 , 05:51 AM

#33

StreamlineR

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,963

oh wow I didn't see T9 made a straight as well. I agree it's a fold now =/

Quote

06-30-2010 , 06:02 AM

#34

spit22

adept

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 884

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_LI_Jl

Really? If we are reping any hand here it's 10 9, and what can villain possibly have that he would shove? IMO, he never has worse than TP or 2 pair here, and you are seriously implying that he would turn those hands into a bluff 30% of the time? He could possibly have 2

s, but if both of them are over he is raising the flop, and if both aren't than he still has made a pair or a str8, and there is simply no way a villain, even one that we know to periodically bluff, is turning a made hand into a bluff 30% of the time here.

Psychologically this is hard to fold, but mathematically and ev-wise this is a snap fold.

i am not saying he is bluffing 30 % or whatever here . I m just saying we don't know what % he would because it's the first time he takes this line. the fact that only T9 is in his range and that he might or might not play it like this, plus the fact that he is good and we have a straight in a spot that we would be bluffing or valuebetting something worse v often makes it a call. This is the strength of taking a line v rarely. because villain gives a lot of respect to it you can have a v high % of bluffs in that line.

If flop didn't have a flush draw or turn was a 6 and river a 4 i'd be much more inclined to fold.

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07-02-2010 , 02:29 AM

#35

0bullmarket0

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 332

only had like 3 secs in my time bank left cause i used it up in another few hands. dident know what to do so spaz clicked call and he had A7s.

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07-02-2010 , 02:31 AM

#36

0bullmarket0

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 332

Quote:

Originally Posted by urubu111

Well done

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07-02-2010 , 03:04 AM

#37

spit22

adept

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 884

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0bullmarket0

only had like 3 secs in my time bank left cause i used it up in another few hands. dident know what to do so spaz clicked call and he had A7s.

good call.

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07-02-2010 , 06:25 AM

#38

PureDiesel

Raw Power

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,938

Was the villain H@LINGGOL? I've had almost exact hand vs him and he showed me A4o AFAIR. Except i slightly OB river and we were lil deeper.

Last edited by PureDiesel; 07-02-2010 at 06:33 AM.

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07-02-2010 , 07:22 AM

#39

urubu111

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 6,778

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isura

this is so ridiculous I'm not sure we agree on the definition of a good reg. I'm not basing my decision when he ships 175bb on the river on a vague assumption that he'll play certain hands in his range a certain way 100% of the time.

dude, its just impossible to see T9 on his hand if he is at least ''OKish''. even a bad reg wouldn't make this huge mistake (c/c 2streets w/ T9 or T9cc is a BIG mistake).

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