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200nl deep spew or not? 200nl deep spew or not?

12-30-2012 , 02:41 AM
    Poker Stars, $1/$2, $0.40 ante No Limit Hold'em Cash, 2 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #15186331

    Hero (SB): $839.76 (419.9 bb)
    BB: $652.83 (326.4 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with 7 K
    Hero raises to $4.80, BB raises to $20, Hero calls $15.20

    Flop: ($40.80) 6 J Q (2 players)
    BB bets $30, Hero raises to $80, BB calls $50

    Turn: ($200.80) T (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $140, BB calls $140

    River: ($480.80) 7 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $440 (his all-in is 412.43$)



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    We're both SH deep regs, we've played a fair share both SH and HU together. Seems a bit more straightforward but def is a competent and thinking player.
    His 3b is 16%, FCB in 3b pot 80% (at that time prob was >90%), TCB in 3b pot 50% - was pretty barrel happy in 3b pots.
    My Fv3b roughly 50%, 4bet roughly 15% if not less. All 2pairs are in my range OTF, he knows that. Haven't seen me do a single suicidal bluff yet, but did catch plenty of smaller ones.
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-30-2012 , 03:32 AM
    Probs a spot that you dont need to put yourself in imo...im probs just flatting / folding the flop

    ends up where his range is uncapped somewhat and all his nut hands take the exact same line on all 3 streets , whereas as yours is kinda capped given you raised the flop and are your 4betting 15%...i guess id say your capped to 6-6 J-Q for value given your flop action +4bet %....so on the turn you cant have the nuts that often and he has all 16 combos of A-K + all the set combos ...and are you really gonna be shuving 200bb's with 6-6-6 or top 2 pair on the river ?
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-30-2012 , 06:19 AM
    Whats your thinnest shove for value here?

    What hands are you expecting a guy who 3bets 16% to be folding after calling your flop raise and turn bet?
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-30-2012 , 09:47 AM
    i like it
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-30-2012 , 12:38 PM
    i think its spew, there is one value 2 pair hand you can have only on the flop. Just think you rep pretty thin considering you never have AK here and he can have AK some of the time
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-30-2012 , 12:50 PM
    Flop raise followed by turn bet might be ok, but not sure you need to have a hand as weak as king high + backdoors in your flop continuing range on this board. You'll have 66 and some straight draws like 89, T9, T8, and AT aswell as Jx/Qx. Doubt you show up with Q6/J6 on flop? Atleast not the off-suit combos, and even if you get there with those are you betting turn, jamming river? Don't think you rep enough here if he knows you 4bet AK, JJ and QQ pre and his range for calling turn looks strong so I don't see a profitable river bluff here.
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-30-2012 , 12:53 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by purrretrog
    Whats your thinnest shove for value here?

    What hands are you expecting a guy who 3bets 16% to be folding after calling your flop raise and turn bet?
    1. JQ
    2. Aces and worse altho im not sure which % of the time he folds them and that's the reason i posted this hand.
    I think i agree now that it's a solid spew...
    Although what's my bluffing range? By the river i've got JQ JJ (id even go as far as saying 100% of the time im flatting jacks vs him but nevertheless he doesnt know that) 66 as value range and what is my actual bluffing range? T9? Something like K9s w backdoor equity?
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-30-2012 , 12:55 PM
    looks fine
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-30-2012 , 01:15 PM
    Probably fine, mainly because we'd expect him to jam sets and AK on the turn I think, and we'd expect him to play all his 1 pair hands like this, which will have a miserable time facing this action.
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-30-2012 , 01:17 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EasyMoney92
    Probably fine, mainly because we'd expect him to jam sets and AK on the turn I think, and we'd expect him to play all his 1 pair hands like this, which will have a miserable time facing this action.
    Why expect him to raise AK on turn? Seems like an easy flat
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-30-2012 , 02:20 PM
    im not raising AK or sets on the turn given his value range for raising the flop is so narrow
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-30-2012 , 02:47 PM
    Seems silly to bluff R a flop that smacks a 3bting range....
    You dont even need pure bluffs on these flops (or at least not continue with them when you're Cd)- as you have a ton of value & semi-bluffing hands you can R here with.

    You said he's barrel happy- You should look for good trn cards to R as he's going to be weaker due to his frequency. Notice that if you wanted to make a play at the pot here a turn R woulda been perfect with all your added equity.

    I think its clear -ev/spew
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-31-2012 , 12:16 AM
    no spew, but i don't like it
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-31-2012 , 03:30 AM
    this is definitely not spew to do once. this is spew to do often.

    anyone saying you can never have QQ or JJ or AK here, that is ridiculous, if you aren't switching up how you play the game 300bb deep then you have some serious leaks.
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-31-2012 , 04:23 AM
    So many different opinions... wtf am i supposed to do now
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-31-2012 , 04:54 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheQuietAnarchist
    this is definitely not spew to do once. this is spew to do often.

    anyone saying you can never have QQ or JJ or AK here, that is ridiculous, if you aren't switching up how you play the game 300bb deep then you have some serious leaks.
    I think people are saying its hard for him to have QQ JJ AK given his huge 4bet %, and his flop action....whilst those hands are legitimatly in villains 3betting range
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-31-2012 , 10:57 AM
    are those hands discounted? sure. is it possible, from an exploitative point of view, that you can picture villain thinking you never have them? sure. does hero maybe never show up here with AK/QQ/JJ? possibly. what i'm saying is that if the answer to the last question is "yes", then that's the biggest leak right there, for the reasons everyone else is saying.
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-31-2012 , 01:22 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheQuietAnarchist
    are those hands discounted? sure. is it possible, from an exploitative point of view, that you can picture villain thinking you never have them? sure. does hero maybe never show up here with AK/QQ/JJ? possibly. what i'm saying is that if the answer to the last question is "yes", then that's the biggest leak right there, for the reasons everyone else is saying.
    You're right, but as soon as we've established that AK/QQ/JJ are in fact discounted (even if we adjust our ranges to deep play), the question is if we shouldn't take this line with this exact hand on a different texture, where we have a wider value range otr and can also rep wider.
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    12-31-2012 , 11:26 PM
    Not sure how much sense the flop raise turn barrel makes since if we did slow play AK pre we are never gonna raise this flop texture, if we have our value range QJ and some sets then this turn is an abortion for us and likely one we ll check back for fear of getting CRAI ott, that said even when villains uncapped here we can still expect him to fold a decent number of combos otr esp if he isn't thinking that deeply

    Last edited by SW_Kaizer; 12-31-2012 at 11:34 PM.
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    01-01-2013 , 02:37 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tobe4funas
    So many different opinions... wtf am i supposed to do now
    go by majority opinion durrr. or work this out by yourself by thinking about the various factors that go into doing something like this. nobody here has THE ANSWER.
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    01-01-2013 , 03:18 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by .isolated
    go by majority opinion durrr. or work this out by yourself by thinking about the various factors that go into doing something like this. nobody here has THE ANSWER.
    get lost morron already
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    01-01-2013 , 03:47 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tobe4funas
    get lost morron already
    Lol his comment to you was just fine. You posted a hand, and got very mixed feedback on the hand. Its now your job to determine who you think the worthwhile posters are and read over their advice. From there see what they have said, and then reflect on the guy you were playing, everything you know about him, and make your decision. We werent playing the guy, you were so realistically only you know. If you got snapped by like AQ here, then you know it was an incorrect play. If you ran he called you with like KJ, well then the play was probably fine, he made a good call and just dont do it again. If you ran into a set or straight, well who knows because he had the nuts. It really is up to you. But I still believe its quite spewy and unnecessary. Dont see any need to blow up the pot deep as being deep he can call wider. If you wanted to get floaty, just flat and reevaluate later streets. I think flatting flop and then check raising turn is alot more credible
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    01-01-2013 , 06:48 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tobe4funas
    get lost morron already
    what part do you disagree with exactly? don't want to go by majority (which is the most logical thing to do after you start a thread)? don't want or know how to think by yourself (i am not flaming and am not claiming this is the case either)? do you think somebody has THE ANSWER? i wasn't trolling at all ffs and i don't see how you could think i was. maybe you're just not logical in which case i have bad news for you trying to become a good poker player...
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    01-02-2013 , 04:28 AM
    given the previous posts you've made around the forum and those which i've read, not thinking that you were 100% trollin didnt even cross my mind.
    apologies if this post was 1 out of many that you werent intentionally trolling, i misunderstood.
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote
    01-02-2013 , 12:45 PM
    since when exactly is going by the majority the most logical thing?
    I value opinions of higher playing players WAY more than opinions of random uNL players
    200nl deep spew or not? Quote

          
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