villain is running 55/43/3.1, stealing 61, calling bb 25 and 3betting 14
if any other stats needed let me know

we are close to 250bb deep wich made this hand a pain for me.

he is repping such a tiny range and i thought it was kinda likely he would do sth stupid with Jx or a draw, since i was raising his donkbet just recently.
overall though he seemed kinda solid, barreling a lot, attacking showdown lines a lot and bluffing in some weird spots. moreover he was very suspicious of bluffs -rarely folding when he had taken a passive line. he almost never gave up when he had a lead of some sort, which let me believe he would jam most rivers.





Hero (BTN/SB): $586.50
BB: $472.50

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BTN/SB with A A
Hero raises to $6, BB calls $4

Flop: ($12.00) J 8 4 (2 players)
BB bets $8, Hero raises to $28, BB calls $20

Turn: ($68.00) 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $54, BB raises to $166, Hero requests TIME,

Go all-in right there. This is a draw almost always. He's probably 3-betting sets on the flop, you don't have to worry about two pairs that made a FH on the turn because he folds J4 and 84 pre, and there's not much naked 4s that call the flop. He has T9 or a flush draw sooo often imo. Top pair + turned flush draw is also very likely to take this line. Plus you said he's likely to be bluffing in weird spots. You are crushing most of his range so shove and protect your hand against the draws.

i wont get called by worse, right?
and will a 200nl player bluff on THE worst bluffing card in the deck?

is this really a standard stackoff (im new to HU)?
i mean yes, his sizing really looks like the gay flushdraw raise, but i doubt, people bluff for 3 stacks at 200nl

I would probably check the turn for pot control, but that's me. Then call the non-club river, if river is a club probably call anyway depending on bet size tells.

As played push imo because this guy has KJ clubs very often and is awkwardly bluffing a 4 with a hand he just doesn't want to fold but doesn't want to face a river bet with if he doesn't improve.

not betting the turn is a huge leak

This is a pretty clear call/call any river in my opinion - any river because you have blockers to both nut flush draws. I like calling here better than shoving because you said villain almost never gives up with his bluffs on the river.

The only hands that he could realistically have in this spot that beat you are 4-4 and maybe 8-8 if he doesn't 3 bet it. He would have 3bet JJ, he likely would have folded out a hand like 45s to a flop raise and I don't think 8-4 or J-4 is in his preflop range. This is so few hands that I think you should be pretty happy about getting the money in here.

Did he show you quads? Or was it a missed (or made) fd?

Im getting him in right there. I think the only hand we should be woried about is pocket 88 and a small chance of 44, JJ tend to be in his 3Bet PF .

Checking the turn is bad.

Shove turn > call/call >>>>> everything else

I think a Huge portion of his range are FDs and Jx here, this 4 just made J8 counterfeited, Im shipping!

I agree you kind of not getting called by worst, but if you make him fold all his draws it's still really good because you pick the pot right here instead of being a 70/30 or smth favorite going to the river

And good players will use the deepness of stacks to bluff more. That's what I do anyway. The more deep you are the more you can push ppl off of hands.

I didn't realize u had the blocker for the nut flush draw tho. That's a really good argument to call/call any river (except a J maybe).

I dont agree that we should be pushing ppl off or bluffing more often whem deep , I agree that we should open up our range and play more speculative hands due to the high implied oods assiciated with deep stack.
Bluffing more and push ppl off is soo much villain dependent IMO.

mmh looks like nobody wants to fold the hand. i did and didnt feel too good about it. thats why i posted the hand.


anyway.
i thought he wouldnt be getting out of line that deep. his bluffing (that i caught) only was in smallish pots. and i thought he was good enough to not play a Jx of clubs combodraw like this...

further thoughts?

Villain is probably 3betting JJ+ most of the time. So he most of the time villains range is JQ, JK, AJ, A4, DRAW.

I would call the turn and fold to futher big action if the river is a jack or a club and call anything else.

I think shipping turn is good, calling is ok too. It sucks if you call and some nasty card comes out and he open shoves.

He shouldn't really have any naked 4's, quads or boats here. If he has the deck crushed why would he c/r the turn? I expect him to have J8 or KJcc, QJcc here alot.

I think it really depends on the opponent. I tend to go by SPR (stack to pot ratios). I don't think you want to get in with 1 pair (technically 2 pair but you know what I mean) that deep with that ratio on the flop unless you're playing an absolute maniac. OP said that the guy was solid/sane. When your that deep one pair hands (like 5-4) that are behind can sometimes call for the implied odds if you are sure that your opponent has a hand they can't get off of. The presence of a flush draw only increases the villians implied odds for playing a hand like 54 as a draw, as the OP is definitely going to not only protect his hand but also think you could be semibluffing with a turn checkraise. The more I think about it the more I would check the turn and bet or raise/fold a non club river and call a club river at a low enough price.

I agree it would be a huge leak with 100 bb stacks to not bet the turn but it is wrong to make blanket statements about "standard" deep stack play which is obv more complex.

Final thought- the villain knows (or has a very good idea) what you have and is pouring chips in the pot anyway. That should always throw up a red flag in your mind.

def but turn... we don't have discuss about betting turn because its a pretty easy bet.

on turn, bet/call > bet/shove > fold. on river i would be calling almost any bet on almost any river.

He doesent have to 3bet sets but those are still a small part of his range so i think shiping turn is fine. I see no merrit in slowplaying this to the river unless you plan on calling any card cept a Jack.

Is he everr donk-calling the flop with btm pair or a set? Seems spewy with btm pair, a bit better with a set, but only 88 seems very reasonable here. Considering the already large size of the pot and all the combo draws out there, I'd just look to get it in asap.

i dont think its that unreasonable for him to have a 4, he probably doesnt have a FH cause hed 3bet flop. i like calling turn, then puking when he shoves river scare card. i just think shoving turn is tough cause he wont call with worse imo.

is this a deepstack table?

i think i would have called turn and any river... Prob. not bad just folding here eighter. feels like raise on the turn aaaalways is a strong hand.

if it is a deepstack table, it is "not that big of a deal" if you lose your stack, as you can just rebuy and take his money later ^^

call/call unless you have some reads that:

1. Villain is ridiculous nit (then fold turn)
2. Villain gives up on bluffs a lot (then call turn -> fold river)

Shoving turn is worse than folding.

Whats his donking range?

it wasnt a deep table so my concern was also, he would run if he won.

call/call seems best for me so far. problem: half the deck is a scare card

shove turn: he only calls off with better than me

thats a dilemma. my conclusion at the point was to just fold, because i only had like 35 blinds invested...


thanks for the input guys, i guess i better start playing deep more often to get a feeling for these kind of situations..

i hadnt figured that out yet.
he was donking infrequently, but in one hand he 3barreldonked an ace high dry board with a gutshot that missed

I prefer call/call, but I don't think shoving is worse then folding..