Villain is a very aggro fish who has been winning a ton from me nonshowdown cause i haven't been paying a lot of attention to him unfortunately. I didn't think he was a huge station to begin with but having played with him more, this probably wasn't the best spot to 4bet bluff. Either way, as soon as I noticed that he's 3bet me 25% I decided to 4bet bluff this hand, and he snap flatted. He donkbets 50%. Thoughts on what to do on the flop, and what to do on a variety of turns if we flat?


Full Tilt Poker $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN/SB): $215.50
BB: $313.75

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BTN/SB with 2 A
Hero raises to $6, BB raises to $22, Hero raises to $47, BB calls $25

Flop: ($94.00) 6 J 2 (2 players)
BB bets $66, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $66

Turn: ($226.00) T (2 players)
BB bets $128, Hero folds

im definitely shoving the flop as a semi-bluff. there aren't many turns u can continue on and he's donking 50%. as played i think u have to fold

oh btw the $128 is a shove if anyone thinks i played this okay at all

i think shoving flop is ok, but so is call/call

im not sure i like folding turn

the reason is when he donks I believe his range is air most of the time

yea my plan was call/call but this was like one of the worst turns to me, i wasn't sure if he'd actually check if he had like 65 or T9 or random **** and it was one of the best cards to give equity to his random ****. that along with a fairly quick "in rhythm" turn shove made me change my mind and save the $110 or whatever.

i think he's definitely checking T9 on the turn eventhough he shouldn't.
I agree it's one of the worst cards because it gives his range ton of equity against your hand but I think you still have the odds to call by far

and I'm not sure what you mean by "in rythm" but I would assume if the T did make him a pair he would tank a bit before acting

disclaimer: i have not read any posts other than ot barewires yet...


i thought about this hand for awhile... a long while...and my immediate instict was to flat flop and shove almost any turn...

... i see this turn and i really think shoving is the best play... and the only other recourse i see is to fold flop.

please disregard... i read the hand completely wrong

okay i 1.34x min raise flop and call shove.

and you are all going to say why?

well F, thats my feel play, and i think we're good far more than we need to be

def shove flop. as played meh, i still get in, but not happy.

Don't 4bet A2 vs a fish, even a very aggro one. A2 is one of the possible worst hands I can think of to 4bet with vs a fish. Wait for a better hand to do it with.

As played, fold flop - your equity vs his range is just bad. Most of the time there he will have a 6, a J, or some pp. No need to make such moves vs a guy like that, just wait until you have an actual hand. Shoving flop is a bluff, why do we need to bluff stations who shows strength in a huge pot where you did already show a lot of strength?

disagree. we 4bet as a bluff here and Ax hands are good because of the card removal + he will often get big Aces in preflop so if he ends up calling and we hit an A we still usually have the best hand.

Fish will happily flat call your 4bet with like 80% of his 3bet range and you'll have a hard time on the flop unless you flop an A. Why bluff him when you can do the same but for value with 88+, A9+, KJ+, that's quite some hands.

For a bluff to be profitable, you must have FE. What FE you have vs a loose fish? He wants to see if he hits the flop.

the question is if it's a good spot to 4bet bluff at all, but if we do A2 is def. a good choice of hand. that's what i was trying to point out.

fwiw i'm not like happily inserting A2o into my 4bet range once i know he's a 4bet calling spew monkey. I thought i made that clear in the OP but I guess not. however, i think it's pretty ****ing necessary to figure out IF he's going to flat all my 4bets, because if he isn't, maybe I should be doing this more often before i get run into the ground.

personally, i think the preflop play is pretty spew. i'm not a fan of fight-fire-with-fire poker and against an aggro tard like this, i'm waiting for something stronger to 4bet. if your intention with a moderately small 4bet pf was to show strength and therefore keep him in the hand, then there's a zero percent chance an aggro fish is going to pick up on that and react passively to your aggression. after all, he's an aggro fish.

wait for a better spot and trap his donk leads with your position.

Can somebody explain shoving flop to me? I understand some of the merits to it but it is a play I never make (prob a leak) and would love to hear a full explanation.

It's a semi bluff, Villain has a weak range and should fold to a shove enough to turn a profit on this board and we usually have 5 outs for added equity. Aside from that, the hand plays really terrible when you flat, (as seen here), and folding kind of sucks because we're getting ran over.

Also helps us balance range but I don't think that matters against this fishy

I'd shove flop and hope he bet/calls Ax.. This is an awful spot to call/call. Did you see we have A2

It's good against regs who don't idiotically flat 4bets with 100% of their 3bet range. Against a manic I hate it (unless you shove, but I don't shove PF unless he's 3-betting very polarized range)

i think aggro fish flat 4bet a lot, i'm not sure this is a good play
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also i think the 4bet bluff is too small. (you give him 2.88:1)
i would make it 55-57$

I think (out on a slight tangent) that most non-regs don't fold most of their 3 betting range to 4 bets, especially at 100NL anyway.