Im 3betting like 20%. Were 3 tabling and he is up a good bit at this point. What do I do on this river? He's got like 350ish left behind.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $4(BB) Replayer
Hero ($832)
($581)

Dealt to Hero Q Q

raises to $12, Hero raises to $40, calls $28

FLOP ($80) 2 5 T

Hero bets $45, calls $45

TURN ($170) 2 5 T K

Hero bets $130, calls $130

RIVER ($430) 2 5 T K A

)

i'd shove, but that's just me.

fold and ask him for a refund because it was black of ftp to bring that river, Hi Nick

lolz, hi nemo, hope u are doing well and dont still hate me

But for reals I think its a c/f fold he has what i think is alot of aces in his range and hes never gonna fold them, when you shove here, Im sure he knows you have alot of hands like This K/X that dunno what to do and shove cuz hey he might call with worse im stuck look tilted and got great turn to bet and now ace river he gonna think im bluffing.

I guess c/f is the best line because, rarely u'll get call by hand JT, 99, 88, QT, and always by by the hands that will beat u like Kx or Ax. Further i guess that most of the times he will not turn the first group of hands, tha u beat, in a bluff shoving but, he will check knowing that he has some show down value

Cool hand. I was gonna say c/f but I wouldn't bluff here so I guess jam?

Could be a jam partly for bluff prevention reasons (as in you think he might turn T8 into a bluff, but you don't know certain enough to call), could be a valuejam if you get that feeling he'll look you up (but he has to call every combination of Tx he has for that to be good), and could be a c/c if you get the feeling he'll just jam 100% if you check. But without any gut feeling it seems a pretty clear c/f.

Probably check/fold BUt I'm nit. If you guys have a more or less normal dynamic I don't think he'll call you too often with worse if you bet, so just there that means checking is probably better. Now it's just a question of chekc/call or check/fold. If you can't decide but hate getting bluffed you could always check/call and if he shows you a better hand you could just tell yoru self: "hey I almost shoved and he would have called anyways so same result.".

The board played out perfectly for the hero to bluff. If I was in his shoes with J9 or whatever, I would absolutely shove the river. There are just sooo few hands I can call with and by the river hero has sooo many strong hands in his range.

You have to jam river to balance your bluffs.

I could see this being true for some players but really depends alot on how you play. QQ really is not even close to being a strong hand for hero on this board... So many better hands he could jam river with.

i think i got the discounts etc somewhat right

Board: 2c 5d Td Kc Ac
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 59.259% 59.26% 00.00% 32 0.00 { QcQs }
Hand 1: 40.741% 40.74% 00.00% 22 0.00 { Ad4d, Ad3d, KTs, QTs, JTs, T7s+, 7c5c, 6c5c, KdQh, KdJc, KdJh, KdJs, KTo, QdJh, QTo, JTo, T9o }

so 40% of his hands are Kx+ that are always going to call river, meaning if he calls with his tens 20% of the time a potsized jam is -ev, unless villain calls this turn lighter than Tx but that seems suicide (seems like this is a spot where you want to jam ur nonpair nonace draws and calling 88 seems ******ed)

the concept is this:
if u think he would call with hand worse teh urs so u r balancing ur range (I wouldnt), If u think to bet because he'll fold hands like kx ur turnig ur hand in a bluff and widening ur bluffing range.
so it depend a lot if u want or not wide ur bluffing range and it depends if the opponent is more on side of the station capable of hero call or not.ù

May be ive been not clear

My first instinct: Checking river is too face up vs a good player. Villain has SD value so often that it seems like "an easy C/F". You want to protect him from bluffing if you check, so you have to bet. Another argument is that he might call with worse some of the time because of your perceived FE, but at the same time, he also fold better, so most important argument here is to protect vs him turning hands into bluffs.

There is one argument of c/c because of this, but his frequencies is too vague IMO. In general I think its good to not enter spots where villain have those kind of frequencies.

c/c let him bluff at it

Why are we so certain that KX is calling? I would expect villain to expect me to c/f or c/c with hands like QQ, KX and maybe even some weaker A's. I would c/f here, but I would balance by taking a c/c line with AQ,AJ. If villain knows that you have a bluff catch range and he's sitting there with any SD value, he's going to check.

I'm pretty sure push > c/f >>> c/c. If c/f is your standard then obv c/c becomes less bad, but I think our bluff catching range becomes sufficiently wide by including Ax. I'm leaning towards push though because I doubt Paster will call with Kx all that often. However, I might be wrong about that. Good hand.

Yes!!! I have a pro agree with me.

There's no way we have so many bluffs that we have to jam a hand this low in our value range. Especially if paster always gets here with sets and kt and some flushes

imo this is a pretty easy vbet vs pasterbator. could be a c/f vs weak players... but vs someome smart i think its an easy shove.

ps: c/c is the worst option ever. c/f or shove... you can't c/c.. he isn't going turn Tx or 5x into a bluff... but def will shove AJ or soemthing.

i strongly disagree...

^^ YES!!! another pro agrees with me

if his 3betflatting range is wide enough then its an easy vbet

made my way to pokerstove and might disagree with myself. i was overestimating how many combos of better value hands we had. i think this is a close spot though and not an easy bet at all.

OP has a a lot of value hands here, so he gets those bluffs for free. But I dunno if you ever call with < QQ more than 50% of the time. It seems more likely you'd bluff diamonds or turn some hand into a bluff