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1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages 1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages

09-02-2009 , 08:20 PM
Hey guys, 1k post and I thought I would write a strategy post. I want to discuss some preflop strategies because of two reasons:
1) While preflop is unimportant in the sense that if you make really good postflop decisions you can play a lot of hands preflop; however, playing various hands for the right reasons preflop sets you up so you can make good decisions easily post flop. If you play a hand preflop that is marginal (in the sense of the criteria i will lay out) then it puts you into a lot of post flop marginal spots with tricky spots and result in bad decisions. Many of the threads regarding marginal spots posted in this forum the marginal decisions people are being forced to make is a result of the preflop decisions that havn't optimized making good postflop decisions. Often this is a result of having preflop ranges that are "locked in" and unstatic and don't change based on the criteria.
2) Much of the "three criteria of preflop isolation" I will discuss comes from a series of balugawhale videos i watched at deucescracked a while back that significantly changed my game and my perspective on the game and dramatically increased my winrate. I hope it will help you do the same.

The comments here are general and apply, in theory, to all stakes.

CONTENTS:
1) The basic theory
2) Examples of the theory
3) What this means for loose vs tight play
4) Moving up and/or playing more tables
5) Betsizing


BASIC THEORY:
Lets get it out there. The three advantages for preflop isolation are:
1) Card advantage
2) Positional advantage
3) Skill advantage

The idea here is that when we play a hand preflop we are not just reading off a chart of what hands to play from what position, we are trying to find a balance of the three various advantages such that it yields a +EV result and sets up for easy and good postflop decisions. This does not mean we need all three advantages, it merely means we need +EV combination of them. Thus having good cards, in position, against bad opponents is the best scenario and bad cards against good opponents out of position is the word scenario. Before we get to examples of what I mean, let us expand on each idea.

Card advantage is fairly obvious...the strength of your cards. What is slightly less obvious is what type of cards are correct for the right situation. In general, one should consider versus the types of opponents you are playing, what cards are best for the types of situations that come up with them. For instance versus a loose passive fish who has trouble letting go of a hand we are getting to showdown a lot of the time and they have trouble getting rid of top or even second pair. As such we want to play cards with high showdown equity and an ability to make better top pairs and better second pairs....namely two BIG cards. Versus a solid TAG we are rarely getting to showdown and when a big pot is played both players usually have a big hand. As such we don't need cards with high showdown equity, just an ability to make a big hand. This is why pocket pairs, suited connectors, suited aces etc ,are so great against these people.

Positional advantage is self explanatory. Skill advantage is much more ellusive but it roughly means that we are going to be able to make better post flop decisions that the opponent in the types of situations we are likely to come up with.

EXAMPLES OF THE THEORY:
Now here is the important part: Deciding what combination of the three advantages is enough. Against a really bad player we can play weak hands and we can play out of position because our ability to outplay them postflop is significant enough. Against a good player we don't want to play out of position and we want to play good cards because our ability to outplay them is reduced.

Example 1) (From a thread earlier) today. Suppose we have K10o in MP with two huge LPfish in the CO and BB and the BTN and SB are tight but disinclined to squeeze...mainly fold unless they have a hand. This can be a raise. As a result of the fish, we can definately be called by far worse so we have a card advantage, we have a clear skill advantage because our ability to extract value from these fish is monstrous when we hit top pair or better and so the deficiency in our positional advantage is not relevant enough to make this a fold. In addition our hand has a strong ability to hit for the types of hands that do well against fish...namely...big cards making a better top pair then their K3 they call with. Ditto worse hands than K10o.
Example 2) A very solid, tricky TAG raise from the CO and you have KJo in the SB. This can be a fold. While it is possible we have a card advantage against his range it isn't a huge advantage and the positional disadvantage and the assumption that we have a similar skill level to the TAG means we should be folding a decent amount.

Example 3) Uber straight forward nit opens from UTG with tight range. We call on the BTN with a VERY wide range of gapconnectors, A5s, low pp's, stuff like that. Our card advantage is nonexistence but with our positional advantage and ability to outplay this guy (fold when we miss, stack him when we hit) is so strong the dominating skill advantage that comes from the fact that it is VERY easy for us to make good decisions and most decisions we put him to will be quite marginal. If we know we are not being stacked with A5s on the A flop when he has AK but HE is being stacked on the A5x flop with Ak then the advantage is ours.


The main point is this: When you feel you have a significant skill advantage over someone (and you should know precisely what that is..."they fold to too many cbets" or "they call 3 big streets with any top pair") whatever it is, then you can considerably widen your range from the conventional card+position chart that many follow far too religiously. When you have any hand that is borderline playable for solely card and position reasons but can list off several reasons and frequent scenario that your skill advantage will dominate them then you can probably play that game. One has to be very selfjudgemental and recognizing that you DO"NT have a massive advantage over the better regs is just as important as acknowledging your advantage over the 80/0/0.1 fish. The goal is to be constantly and relentlessly playing hands in position against the fish, it is NOT to play hands out of position against the regs. I would prefer Q7o IP versus a fish than AJo oop vs a solid player.


LOOSE VS TIGHT:
According to this mantra, at the low stakes games where most people are in general pretty bad, the distinction between loose and tight should be based largely on your skill level. As your skill advantage in certain spots goes up, you can start to include more hands into your profitable range. Playing 14/11 will make you a reliable winner. But, provided you have enough skill, increasing your preflop VPIP can increase your per table winrate.

The other day I was playing a dream table. There was a a guy with an 80 VPIP who was also spazzing off large amounts of money with weak holdings and insta rebuying for the max when he lost a reasonable pot. After half an hour several regs at sat down and were all absolutely nitting it up. This is a RELIABLE strategy to slowly accumulate money. However is absolutely does NOT maximize your EV. This guy is "bad" for far more reasons than just that he plays too many hands preflop. People seem to assume that by playing a better range of hands preflop you will profit off this guy. True. However, because of our dominating SKILL advantage post flop on this guy (as well as the positional advantage I enjoyed) we do not need to have a massive card advantage. in fact just about any two cards is fine because HE is playing any two cards and so it is only the positional and skill advantages that are relevent. The end result was that I was playing 40 VPIP or so against this guy while the nits just folded folded folded and I ended up 500bb off of him. Very high variance in the small pots but a pretty secure and massive +EV strategy in the big pots. This example illustrates that when your skill advantage is big enough, being loose is better than being tight. (To a degree. If you loosen up too much your card disadvantage and possibly positional disadvantage add up to too much to compensate for the skill)

I should also note that against a BAD player, whether you are loose or tight doesn't affect him because he is going to be bad in the ways he is bad irregardless. At higher stakes someones one chooses a loose strategy or mixes up their strategy to try and turn a good player into a bad one, but at the lower stakes there is no need for this. The loose vs tight mantra is largely based on how much of a skill advantage you have


MOVING UP and NUMBER OF TABLEs
As a final note, when one is moving to higher stakes the idea is that your skill advantage will decrease. The result is that as you move up in stakes you should, temporarily, somewhat tighten your play to make up for the fact that you cannot necessarily outplay say the regulars at the same level you did at the previous stake. your skill advantage decreases so you play less holdings. Hopefully you get better, include more hands, win more money, and move up again only to temporarily tighten. Over a year ago when I first moved from NL10 to NL25 I noticed this in particular....while I could play a huge range of hands at NL10 (i had a stupid 22ptbb/100 winrate over 30k hands) when I first tried to do this at NL25 i was somewhat crushed.

Likewise with the number of tables...as you play more tables your relative skill advantage goes down because you are not paying as close attention and don't understand the opponents as well so you are forced to play less hands to remain profitable. perhaps you do not have time, when UTG, to take a look at the table and realize it is a mix of uber tight and uber loose passive players which means you can open a WIDE range of two big cards....or that you are at a table filled mainly with tight players and so you can fire out 67s and expect to pick up the blinds or play a pot with a hand that plays well against TAGs.

BET SIZING
The goal of the above has been to set up good postflop situations....maximizing value preflop and stealing has been of lesser concern. That said, it is a closely related concept that deserves some comment. I think a tonne of people get locked into a "I bet pot every time" or "I bet 4bb or 3bb every time". I thin we should attempt to be more creative with our betsizing preflop to optimize our value. For instance, with loose passive fish who limp call, they will all to frequently not only just call pot but also 5bb, 6bb or more isoraises from the BTN. This doesn't mean raise 6bb every time, but it does mean play arround and if you find a player who is willing to pay off really big on occasion preflop then make your bets as large as you want. Likewise with say stealing from the btn into tight blinds. You don't really want them to fold, although it is nice. You have a positional advantage as well as a skill advantage since they are likely going to play very straightforwardly postflop...your decisions will usually be good and easy. Raising 3bb, 2.5bb or even 2bb is totally fine. If you can get these tight players OFF of their game and calling out of position with bad hands because you have minraised then this is a winning strategy. But if it is LPfish in the blinds don't raise 2bb, raise like 4bb because they will STILL call when you have massive skill+ position+possibly card advantage. Or take squeezing IP with hands like KJo vs the LP fish. If you think they will call with worse hands to say a small (or even a big) 3 bet then your ability to outplay them postflop + position + possibly even a card advantage makes up for the lost EV when the fold (and you would have won money post flop) if they actually call oop with bad hands your 3bet enough. There is no reason to always make really big 3 bets. Regarding position, as a rule i will raise more oop than IP just because I want to encourage people to play me IP as much as possible. If I know nothing about the table I will often start opening 4bb from UTG/MP and 3bb from CO/BTN.This means with my better hands they pay more, and when I have worse hands but have position they are more likely to play.


Cliffs:
When you make a decision preflop as to whether to play a hand, try to get a good mix of the three preflop advantages: card, positional and skill.

Hope you enjoyed!
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-02-2009 , 08:24 PM
1st
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-02-2009 , 08:33 PM
Nice post. I can see this being mostly useful to beginners. I especially liked the tight vs loose section.
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-02-2009 , 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiggs
Nice post. I can see this being mostly useful to beginners. I especially liked the tight vs loose section.
Indeed it definately is more for beginners, but I do think that a lot of nonbeginers while they probably nod there head and agree with the post, once it is written down, are not necessarily thinking in these terms which are fairly beneficial.

Basically the mantra of "what am I trying to accomplish with this raise" asked at every single street, in particular preflop with this post, has been the single largest changer of my game than any fancy advanced strategy of hard reading analysis. It is very foundational, but very important imo.
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-02-2009 , 11:46 PM
Solid post. I think I can definately use this idea to help me open up pre, though my post flop game probably needs some work in order to have this skill edge of which you speak.
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-03-2009 , 12:25 AM
Good read OP
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-04-2009 , 12:40 AM
What were the videos?
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-04-2009 , 02:00 AM
Very nice post. TY.
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-04-2009 , 02:05 AM
Great post, really useful.

Thanks OP
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-04-2009 , 04:23 AM
nice post and I agree with everything except for this (might not be incorrect but may need to be made more clear).

Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
Example 3) Uber straight forward nit opens from UTG with tight range. We call on the BTN with a VERY wide range of gapconnectors, A5s, low pp's, stuff like that. Our card advantage is nonexistence but with our positional advantage and ability to outplay this guy (fold when we miss, stack him when we hit) is so strong the dominating skill advantage that comes from the fact that it is VERY easy for us to make good decisions and most decisions we put him to will be quite marginal. If we know we are not being stacked with A5s on the A flop when he has AK but HE is being stacked on the A5x flop with Ak then the advantage is ours.
I don't believe calling with suited gappers or small Axs is going to be a great idea vs. a tight UTG range (all PP's and SC's 56s+ I agree) unless we have a drooler that's likely going to make it multiway with great implied odds. However, there are bad flops for a tight UTG range where we can use position to take away some pots and we should realize which flops connect well/poorly with a tight UTG raising range.
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-04-2009 , 05:06 AM
tl;dr

no this is nice srsly
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-04-2009 , 05:47 AM
Very nice post, I enjoyed.
I have a question though.
Most strategic post are NOT about postflop play and suggest being stronger than most vilains. Are there actually some very good post about postflop plays with many exemples? I did not find that many in the sticky. What are actually the keys to make our postflop play better?

Cheers
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-04-2009 , 06:10 AM
^Be better than your opponents generally. Your postflop game improves with experience, post hands here and discuss other hands and people will tell you if you suck

OP i didnt really understand why you wanna 3bet more oop to ENCOURAGE people to play ip with you

btw where are you from?
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-05-2009 , 09:12 AM
bump, could you answer me OP?
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-06-2009 , 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ligic
bump, could you answer me OP?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ligic
OP i didnt really understand why you wanna 3bet more oop to ENCOURAGE people to play ip with you
imo
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-06-2009 , 07:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ligic
imo
Lol
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-12-2009 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ligic
OP i didnt really understand why you wanna 3bet more oop to ENCOURAGE people to play ip with you
He never said that. What he meant was that he 3bets less in position to encourage people to play him.

Great post btw. Been watching Balugas videos myself, his understanding of the game is just incredible.
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-12-2009 , 05:53 PM
Q7o IP against fish vs. AJo vs. a "good" player OOP is a bit debatable imo
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote
09-12-2009 , 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksight3
Q7o IP against fish vs. AJo vs. a "good" player OOP is a bit debatable imo
Not at all if by saying fish we mean the player who won't bluff us out of the pot when we have showdown value.
1k theory post: Preflop isolation advantages Quote

      
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