15NL AKo 520bb deep vs aggro fish - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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15NL AKo 520bb deep vs aggro fish

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04-09-2012 , 10:15 AM

VIVEK15

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,520

(This is SEK not $)

Boss, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #12496342

BTN: $128.40 (128.4 bb)
CO: $655.21 (655.2 bb)
Hero (BB): $520.13 (520.1 bb)
MP1: $465.87 (465.9 bb)
MP2: $404.09 (404.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

2 folds, BTN raises to $3, CO calls $2.50, Hero raises to $12, BTN folds, CO calls $9

Flop: ($27) K

(2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $20.25, CO calls $20.25

Turn: ($67.50) 6

(2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $49, CO calls $49

River: ($165.50) 9

(2 players)
CO bets $51, Hero raises to $160, CO calls $109

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Villian was : 60/30/2.4AF, 9,2 3b, 22f2cb 8f2turncb - 231 hands. I had a read on him that when he bets out small he has an OK hand.

I was: 40/28/2.7AF, 4,9 3b.

Pre: standard.

Flop: standard bet in a 3b pot, could maybe be a little bigger cus of he is a fish.

Turn: standard i think.

River: Here's where im a little confused. He bets out less than 1/3 pot all of the sudden. My read said that he did that when he had an OK hand. So i put him on Kx pretty much and made a re-raise purely for value.

Thoughts on the hand?

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04-09-2012 , 10:19 AM

CCM

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 6,528

Can't see a problem if your read is solid. What do you think he would do with QT, J9 or 55 on this river and earlier streets?

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04-09-2012 , 10:22 AM

Back off Kiddo

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,346

Pre: I go bigger because you're deep. $15 - $18 is good.

Flop&turn are good, you could go a little bigger on each street because it does make a big difference and you want max value.

When he donks on the river I raise/fold for value because of the read you had, and I'd also do it if that read didn't exist. I think he would raise hands that beat you on flop/turn already so only thing he can have now that beats you is QT/K9 (maybe J9). When I raise I don't think he would 3bet a worse hand that is why I'm raise/folding..

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04-09-2012 , 10:57 AM

VIVEK15

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,520

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCM

Can't see a problem if your read is solid. What do you think he would do with QT, J9 or 55 on this river and earlier streets?

55 he would raise bigger otr or shown strenght otf or ott already, QT also bigger raise otr. J9 is in his range, i would expect him to bet bigger otr tho with 2p.

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Originally Posted by Back off Kiddo

Hmm bigger pre cus im deep? Should i really make my 3bs bigger when im deeper than 200bb?

Otr would u really r/f? If he jam otr i think he could spazz hands like KJ-K7 dont u think? Ofc QT is also in his range aswell as K9 and J9 but still? Often i see these kind of villians spazz out bad with hands like TPGK when they simply can call otr.

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04-09-2012 , 11:21 AM

Back off Kiddo

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,346

You want to build a larger pot with a strong hand than normally so why not go as big as you can? Goal is to maximize value and you don't do that by going with a smaller size.

I'm not sure if raise/calling is good especially this deep. I just don't see him donk/shoving a range we beat on the river. Hard to say without having played with the villian.

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04-09-2012 , 11:27 AM

IvanD

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 118

another reason to 3b bigger when you're deeper is to deny them profitable odds to call with the more speculative parts of their range.

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04-09-2012 , 12:18 PM

VIVEK15

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,520

So preflop should i 3b bigger with all my 3b range vs all villians when i am 200+bb deep? Or should i only make it bigger against some villians?

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04-09-2012 , 03:24 PM

CCM

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 6,528

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVEK15

So preflop should i 3b bigger with all my 3b range vs all villians when i am 200+bb deep? Or should i only make it bigger against some villians?

OOP and deep I can't think of a situation where your 3 bet should be less than pot sized. If you are bluffing you want fold equity and people will call speculatively a lot more 150bb deep. If you are value betting you can get more value for the same reason. Sounds kind of counter-intuative that it works both ways but I'm pretty sure the optimal 3 bet size slowly increases with stack depth

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04-09-2012 , 06:14 PM

VIVEK15

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,520

Ok, when im OOP i usually make 1.5bb extra in my 3b, i think i missed it this time and when i am 150bb+ u recommand making 1.5bb more or even more than that?

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04-09-2012 , 06:52 PM

#10

marcob1

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 24

I'd be happy with the size of the pot on the river considering that he donks it, so I would just call (minimize damage in case I'm beat)

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04-09-2012 , 06:59 PM

#11

PeoplesElbow

banned

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 10,847

just flat river. if he jams or raises you your gonna puke fold.

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04-10-2012 , 05:12 AM

#12

VIVEK15

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,520

Even with my read that he only donks small with OK hands? I saw him before do that with 83o on a 874cccx3 board. Also saw him do it with TPGK.

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04-10-2012 , 01:44 PM

#13

MillerWhite

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,271

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVEK15

Even with my read that he only donks small with OK hands? I saw him before do that with 83o on a 874cccx3 board. Also saw him do it with TPGK.

yea i wouldnt open up the betting again this deep otr with just a pare

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04-10-2012 , 01:50 PM

#14

nisk

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 62

Your raise otr is not riskless, but if you have a solid read that's a very nice hand. I'd just flat the river without reads.

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04-10-2012 , 02:47 PM

#15

VIVEK15

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,520

Yeah well its thin and close between raising and calling otr i guess.. i still like my raise

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04-10-2012 , 06:28 PM

#16

ymu

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,060

Against a normal villain it looks like a blocker bet with a weak K or a raptor bet with a set/AA trying to provoke a raise.

He doesn't have many weak K's with call/call pre (how often does he call 3bets?). He does have a lot of sets/AA. He'll fold most of what you beat and call with everything that beats you.

Just call. But with your read on the bet-sizing, I don't hate the raise. But K9 and KJ are in that small bet range I think, so I'm cautious.

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