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10NL - two marginal hands vs villains with high AF 10NL - two marginal hands vs villains with high AF

07-04-2008 , 04:27 PM
Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $6.50
CO: $11.15
Hero (BTN): $28.95
SB: $7.00

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with A Q
CO raises to $0.40, Hero calls $0.40, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.95) 8 2 Q (2 players)
CO bets $0.90, Hero raises to $3, CO raises to $6.10, Hero ???

villain is 21/12/5.7 over 81 hands. Is this a 3bet preflop vs. his 12% raising range?



Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $5.85
BB: $8.60
UTG: $10.05
Hero (CO): $14.65
BTN: $13.55

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with A A
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.40, BTN calls $0.40, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.95) Q 8 Q (2 players)
Hero bets $0.70, BTN raises to $2.45, Hero calls $1.75

Turn: ($5.85) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.50, Hero ????

villain is 16/9/10 over 44 hands.




I don't have my stats for the individual tables, but during the 2 hour session in which these hands occurred I ran 16/12/2.
10NL - two marginal hands vs villains with high AF Quote
07-04-2008 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermion5
Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $6.50
CO: $11.15
Hero (BTN): $28.95
SB: $7.00

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with A Q
CO raises to $0.40, Hero calls $0.40, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.95) 8 2 Q (2 players)
CO bets $0.90, Hero raises to $3, CO raises to $6.10, Hero ???

villain is 21/12/5.7 over 81 hands. Is this a 3bet preflop vs. his 12% raising range?
Is he positionally aware? If yes, he's got a pretty wide range here so by all means 3bet. He may lay down right there, and it makes our decisions easier on future streets if he doesn't.

As played, I don't like your flop raise. If he's decent, his betsizing screams one of two things: a hand that's strong but afraid of the club draw, or a pure cbet. What are you trying to get to lay down by raising this? If he's just cbetting, odds are he'll check to you on the turn and fold to a bet there. You have position, use it for pot control. We've got a decent hand but there's no sense bloating the pot.

Quote:
Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $5.85
BB: $8.60
UTG: $10.05
Hero (CO): $14.65
BTN: $13.55

Pre Flop: Hero is CO with A A
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.40, BTN calls $0.40, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.95) Q 8 Q (2 players)
Hero bets $0.70, BTN raises to $2.45, Hero calls $1.75

Turn: ($5.85) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.50, Hero ????

villain is 16/9/10 over 44 hands.
I shove or fold this flop raise OOP. 16/9 on the button has Qx and 88 in his range, but that's rare. If this were a passive player, this would be a pretty easy fold, but I'm inclined to shove over an aggro villain here if I've seen him raising flops. I don't like calling here; what do you hope to see on the turn? After calling his flop raise and checking to him, he's firing again on the turn almost always.
10NL - two marginal hands vs villains with high AF Quote
07-04-2008 , 06:31 PM
Hand 1: his raising range probably is wider than 12% remember, I 3bet it.Im willing to get it in on the flop as played, he'll show up with an array of hands here. But I prefer to call and look to build a pot in later streets

Hand 2: Uhh I give it up on the turn , if you call you gotta stack off on river most of time which Im no prepared to do so I get away now for cheap
10NL - two marginal hands vs villains with high AF Quote
07-04-2008 , 07:18 PM
Quote:
I shove or fold this flop raise OOP. 16/9 on the button has Qx and 88 in his range, but that's rare. If this were a passive player, this would be a pretty easy fold, but I'm inclined to shove over an aggro villain here if I've seen him raising flops. I don't like calling here; what do you hope to see on the turn? After calling his flop raise and checking to him, he's firing again on the turn almost always.
well if he's bluffing or overvaluing some pocket pair hand, why should i stop him by shoving flop? I don't think he shows up often with a flush draw, so i'm in a WA/WB situation. I do think he gives up some on the turn, but I knew that once he bet turn it was fold/shove for me. calling and letting a fourth diamond come up is pretty bad.
10NL - two marginal hands vs villains with high AF Quote
07-04-2008 , 08:08 PM
I agree that the turn is 100% a fold/shove situation -- there's no pot control here, if you call this you have to call any river bet. I don't think a 10 AF guy (sample size issues, but still) is giving up on the turn after you check often enough though. This is where non-HUD reads and what he's shown down previously come in.

I don't think he's bluffing the flop. Semibluffing a flush draw is a possibility though. I've shoved in this situation and picked up calls from what would amount to 99-JJ here. Maybe I table select good.

The reason why I think shoving the flop is better than calling is because he's in the driver's seat by virtue of having position on you. If you don't know what you're going to do on the turn if faced with a solid bet you can't call the flop. You're simultaneously hoping he slows up on the turn and continues if he's bluffing/overvaluing -- you don't know what you want to see. By shoving you effectively negate his positional advantage, because it's tough to play for pot control out of position. He doesn't get to decide to see a free card if he's on the flush draw, and he can't bluff you off a winning hand.

Feel free to disagree though, I hate these spots and have trouble playing them against resistance. You either fold everyone out and don't get any value for your overpair, or you get played back at and don't know if it's a worse pair or the nuts.

I'm not sure about this line but something I just thought of as a possibility was calling the flop and donking any turn for just over half the pot. If the diamond comes (as it did) and he raises you're done, you can fold. Otherwise I think you've still got just barely enough behind to get away on the river.
10NL - two marginal hands vs villains with high AF Quote

      
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