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10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? 10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range?

09-24-2010 , 12:29 AM
CO is a 78/10 fish. BTN plays 22/16/4 wsd 24% over 300 hands but I have no other reads on him but a note that says "unusual player" (yes, bad, should have more notes but the 70/10's in this world keep me busy). Im obv targeting the fish pre. BTN sees me as a 25/22/4 with 70-80% cbet monkey but im actually pretty well behaved on the turn and river (usually). Would it be correct for me to shove my last 6.30 here considering villains range?

Ongame Network $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (SB): $10.03
BB: $8.90
UTG: $9.85
CO: $7.84
BTN: $28.97

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with A T
1 fold, CO calls $0.10, BTN calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.45, 1 fold, CO calls $0.35, BTN calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.45) K K 4 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.90, CO folds, BTN calls $0.90

Turn: ($3.25) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.50, BTN calls $2.50

River: ($8.25) 2 (2 players)

Last edited by (.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.); 09-24-2010 at 12:56 AM.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 01:02 AM
Only things he'll call with are Kx or 44, do you think villain has what it takes to call the turn with nothing? In general I think just don't barrel with air in a 3-way pot.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 01:06 AM
Its not 3way on the turn.

I think he has SC's in his range (34,45,46 or something) and maybe some baby PP's considering he didnt iso the fish. I have a pretty high cbet frequency so I cannot imagine they ever fold the flop after the fish folds.

Btw, I think the flopbet is fine as it missed everyone almost always.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 01:11 AM
What is he floating you with on the turn that will fold to a river shove? I just don't see him floating with air on the turn. I think he's probably quite strong there, it is conceivable that he floated the flop with 77 too and hit a set on the turn.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 01:11 AM
what do you consider his range to be? most of his range should insta fold the flop or float you on the turn.

imo, small pocket pairs that call the turn will call a $6 river bet. i'd fold.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 01:14 AM
..How many attempts is his WTSD stats for? How important is this stat over 300 hands? If its any indication of villain being weak tight, I think we're done after our two barrel. Maybe even after our flop bet.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 01:16 AM
I have pretty hard time giving him a range since he didnt iso the fish and I would iso the fish with almost the entire range of hands I would open with.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 01:57 AM
Can double barreling multi way pots can be profitable? MOst of villains on flop wont give u credit and float or raise u
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 02:06 AM
Kxs seems like the most likely holding.

Based on flop and turn play and the fact that he overlimped, he probably has Kx suited and 44. Unless he's a crazy calling station fish, i don't see what else he can have.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 02:10 AM
betting the turn and not betting the river is spew imo

betting the turn is spew imo

betting the flop is ok

he doesn't have any SC's in his range though, wtf lol..? but yeah once he limpcalls i can't imagine he has much Kx, and likely alot of PP's so jammings probably fine
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 02:12 AM
the pocket pairs you are trying to get him to fold he most likely would have just isoed with
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GOONERCAM
betting the turn and not betting the river is spew imo

betting the turn is spew imo

betting the flop is ok

he doesn't have any SC's in his range though, wtf lol..? but yeah once he limpcalls i can't imagine he has much Kx, and likely alot of PP's so jammings probably fine
Why wouldnt he have sc's in his range? He didnt iso. Limping sc's in this spot actually makes more sense then liming pp's imo. But in the end I think limping almost never makes sense if you can get a fish HU. Well, maybe its just that I sporadically limp 45s behind that I put it in his range.

But I was thinking the same as you, this is almost never Kx and more small PP's (below 6's, I guess) and some small sc's (IMO), thats actually why I made the turnbet, I was pretty sure his range was that narrow and that he would fold alot here. And its not like we have any crazy history but he surely knows I love to bet flops.

You really think not betting the river is spew? What would be his range by now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by humanabstract91
the pocket pairs you are trying to get him to fold he most likely would have just isoed with
I would think even more so with Kx. Small pp's he MIGHT limp for some reason: 22-66.

Last edited by (.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.); 09-24-2010 at 02:44 AM.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by (.)(.)(.)(.)(.)(.)
Why wouldnt he have sc's in his range? He didnt iso. Limping sc's in this spot actually makes more sense then liming pp's imo. But in the end I think limping almost never makes sense if you can get a fish HU. Well, maybe its just that I sporadically limp 45s behind that I put it in his range.

But I was thinking the same as you, this is almost never Kx and more small PP's (below 6's, I guess) and some small sc's (IMO), thats actually why I made the turnbet, I was pretty sure his range was that narrow and that he would fold alot here. And its not like we have any crazy history but he surely knows I love to bet flops.
like i mean he never only has SC when he calls this flop. its like 45s or 46s, which isnt many combos, maybe A4s. the point is A4s = 66 on the turn and river so labelling them SC and pocket pairs is misleading.

at first i thought you meant he might have 56s, 67s or 68s or something, which obv never call the flop
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 02:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GOONERCAM
like i mean he never only has SC when he calls this flop. its like 45s or 46s, which isnt many combos, maybe A4s. the point is A4s = 66 on the turn and river so labelling them SC and pocket pairs is misleading.

at first i thought you meant he might have 56s, 67s or 68s or something, which obv never call the flop
haha, no
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 06:56 AM
cbetting is fine, but it takes quite of a parlay here to triple barrel, b/c: altough you have the right ideas lined out about the opponent type you need and that if you bet the turn you should shove almost any river, well that's as bad of a river as it gets for this. 2) gooner and humanabstract have villain's range right imo. So maybe just give up ott.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 07:36 AM
id shove, but seeing as its nl10 villain might have some ******ed KT that he didnt iso pre
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 08:43 AM
As a standard, don't bet this turn.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 08:49 AM
I think for sure, we can put him on a PP of some description because the 7d is essentially a blank, therefore wouldnt be a good card for us too barrel as a bluff.

Therefore the villain is facing a turn bet, and this is where he is going to have to decide whether he is going all the way with the hand or not. It looks like he is, given that the 2h on river is as blank as it comes, it would be bad if he folded his 88 or whatever. He can turn up with some Kings as well of course.

I just wouldnt bet the turn.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 02:25 PM
But shouldnt he fold most of that range ott?

I can understand calling the flop with it but calling the turn would be bad?
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 02:28 PM
DONT BLUFF CALLING STATIONS

Last edited by udbrky; 09-24-2010 at 04:17 PM.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GOONERCAM
betting the turn and not betting the river is spew imo

betting the turn is spew imo

betting the flop is ok

he doesn't have any SC's in his range though, wtf lol..? but yeah once he limpcalls i can't imagine he has much Kx, and likely alot of PP's so jammings probably fine
This was what I was thinking, although only firing 1 bet and c/f the turn in 3 bet pots is extremely exploitable I don't give many villains at 10nl a lot of credit for paying close attention to those things. I don't think we can fold out better here.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 03:03 PM
Whatever his calling range is for the flop and turn (I'm saying low to mid pairs) then the 2 on the river changes nothing for him. No shove.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 03:07 PM
I notice gooner already said this, but the first thing I thought when I saw the HH was "why are they betting the turn if it's not to shove the river". The second thing I thought was that you should not do this.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 03:24 PM
I am actually amazed that none of you would fold a small pair on the turn vs me.
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote
09-24-2010 , 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknCoke56
This was what I was thinking, although only firing 1 bet and c/f the turn in 3 bet pots is extremely exploitable I don't give many villains at 10nl a lot of credit for paying close attention to those things. I don't think we can fold out better here.
Its not a 3bet pot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark89er
DONT BLUFF CALLING STATIONS U PRICK
Where did you get the impression he is a calling station? And why would you be a dick about it?
10nl, rivershove correct vs villains range? Quote

      
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