10NL River Flush (Max Value?) - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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10NL River Flush (Max Value?)

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09-06-2011 , 01:06 AM

Shelldonahue

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,877

No reads off of players. Just joined.

Merge - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $19.93
CO: $9.47
BTN: $6.87
SB: $9.26
Hero (BB): $10.00

SB posts SB $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has 2

UTG raises to $0.20, fold, BTN calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.65, 4 players) T

Hero checks, UTG checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($0.65, 4 players) 8

Hero checks, UTG bets $0.32, BTN calls $0.32, Hero calls $0.32

River: ($1.61, 4 players) K

Hero?

What is the best way to get maximum value on this hand with a paired board?

I was considering check/raising because I thought that UTG might 2 barrel and if he has A10 or AK he might call off my raise.

I have a friend who was considering leading out for value. Is this a better play?

All comments and criticisms are appreciated, but please explain your answers.

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09-06-2011 , 01:09 AM

TBreakfree

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 438

Tough spot, if the player who bet the turn is aggressive he may be trying to pick the pot up but if hes not I may check and hope he bets the river (Thinking he has a 8). I would assume the first call had Top pair or a weaker flush draw. Gotta go with your gut.

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09-06-2011 , 01:18 AM

Freewill2112

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,372

Really hard to know UTG's range for raising, or if a min-raise is his normal size. I think we should go for the check raise here. My reasoning is that the turn bet is very likely to be either a club draw or an 8, both of which he will value bet with on the river, but likely will not raise if we bet. I'm not at all worried anyone has a full house given that the flop checked through, so I'm inclined to play this as though we have the nuts. Button may have also made a hand too and be likely to bet it.

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09-06-2011 , 02:23 AM

siebenacht

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,610

What about semi-bluffing turn? Then you can almost shove river if your card hits. Also very unlikely someone hit something.

As played go for a check-raise. You will get more value, especially from lower-flushes and trips.

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09-06-2011 , 02:24 AM

Bigheadarch1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7,096

Much better to bet this turn urself if you plan on c/c

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09-06-2011 , 02:26 AM

goranbaxy

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,362

don't go for c/r, just bet and fold to a raise. By c/r you are overrepresenting your hand and he might just check hands that he will call you if you bet.
also, bet the turn.

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09-06-2011 , 02:33 AM

Freewill2112

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,372

^^^ Why are we folding to a raise? What are we ever beat by here? K8 that backed into a FH maybe, but that's pretty much it.

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09-06-2011 , 02:34 AM

Bigheadarch1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7,096

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freewill1978

^^^ Why are we folding to a raise? What are we ever beat by here? K8 that backed into a FH maybe, but that's pretty much it.

Every other possible FH

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09-06-2011 , 02:35 AM

goranbaxy

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,362

T8, TT, 44, K8... ?

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09-06-2011 , 02:37 AM

#10

la6ki

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,675

There is a good chance that one of them has an 8 here, so c/r is fine imo. This is 10NL and I don't expect them to fold it. Being scared of a FH is nitty.

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09-06-2011 , 02:40 AM

#11

goranbaxy

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,362

8 is most likly only hand that he is betting river that we can beat. And we don't know if he is calling our raise if he does bet.

Last edited by goranbaxy; 09-06-2011 at 02:41 AM. Reason: .

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09-06-2011 , 02:49 AM

#12

Freewill2112

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,372

Quote:

Originally Posted by goranbaxy

T8, TT, 44, K8... ?

3 out of those 4 hands are putting money into the pot on that kind of flop.

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09-06-2011 , 02:58 AM

#13

Bigheadarch1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7,096

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freewill1978

3 out of those 4 hands are putting money into the pot on that kind of flop.

why? Wat reads do we have on villain to signify this? Why wudnt they bet an 8 on such a drawy board being the initial aggressor?

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09-06-2011 , 02:58 AM

#14

Shelldonahue

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,877

Quote:

Originally Posted by goranbaxy

T8, TT, 44, K8... ?

T8, TT, 44 would not have been played that way. The villain is loose, but not a maniac. We can completely eliminate T8 and K8 from UTGs range.

BTN could have those hands, but I know he would have bet on the flop or raised the turn.

For UTG he would have bet TT and 44 on the flop due to the fact it was multi-way and draw heavy.

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09-06-2011 , 03:00 AM

#15

Bigheadarch1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7,096

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelldonahue

include that you know this in ur OP

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09-06-2011 , 03:07 AM

#16

Freewill2112

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,372

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigheadarch1

why? Wat reads do we have on villain to signify this?

None. What reads do you have that they'd slow-play a monster vs. two opponents on a dangerous flop?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigheadarch1

Why wudnt they bet an 8 on such a drawy board being the initial aggressor?

Not wanting to blow up a pot with a marginal hand vs. 2 opponents?

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09-06-2011 , 03:10 AM

#17

la6ki

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,675

Quote:

Originally Posted by goranbaxy

8 is most likly only hand that he is betting river that we can beat. And we don't know if he is calling our raise if he does bet.

There are more 8/worse flush combos than FH combos. And I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that he calls a non-AI raise more than 50% of the time with those hands.

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09-06-2011 , 03:53 AM

#18

Bigheadarch1

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 7,096

Fact remains that against an unknown villain hes not going to raise a naked 8 when we lead the river and will prob fold an 8 often enough when we c/r

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09-06-2011 , 04:09 AM

#19

la6ki

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,675

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigheadarch1

Fact remains that against an unknown villain hes not going to raise a naked 8 when we lead the river and will prob fold an 8 often enough when we c/r

How does it remain a fact, given that I just challenged it?

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09-06-2011 , 06:09 AM

#20

goranbaxy

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,362

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelldonahue

No reads off of players. Just joined.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelldonahue

T8, TT, 44 would not have been played that way. The villain is loose, but not a maniac. We can completely eliminate T8 and K8 from UTGs range.

so you just joined but you know villains opening range?

if he is tight from UTG, then his play doesn't make sense, he would barrel any over pair, any FD.
Only hand that make sense is club draw or slowplayed FD. But for that, we have to know UTG opening range, so do you have reads or you don't?

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09-06-2011 , 08:04 AM

#21

Mark89er

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 10,223

pot river

if he raises, fml, close the eyes and look at his riase size and snap click a random button

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