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10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove 10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove

01-15-2010 , 09:25 AM
Villain is 29/23 over 31 hands, AFq = 60%

Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 477905
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BB: $10.91
UTG: $12.71
UTG+1: $10.80
UTG+2: $12.06
MP1: $36.68
MP2: $15.83
Hero (CO): $8.70
BTN: $13.75
SB: $10.50

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with T Q
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.45, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.05) K 2 J (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $0.75, UTG+1 raises to $1.50, Hero calls $0.75

Turn: ($4.05) 4 (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $1.90, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $1.90

River: ($7.85) 7 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $4.85 all in and hopes villain isn't holding As or Ks

What do you guys think?
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-15-2010 , 09:27 AM
if you are going to bluff shove the flop where you have the most equity...
as played I think both players butchered this hand massively.
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-15-2010 , 09:59 AM
dont bluff ur stack @ 10NL with air.

should of soved on flop or turn
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-15-2010 , 10:04 AM
UTG+1 showed pocket 2s didn't he.
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-15-2010 , 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyG-SD
if you are going to bluff shove the flop where you have the most equity...
as played I think both players butchered this hand massively.
This, and buy-in full please.

This play probably works enough @ 10NL because people have serious MUBS and villain will assume that you BD'd a flush. Before considering if a bluff is a good idea, I like to know that villain actually has a fold button that is activated. After 30 hands, you just can't know that yet

Raising the flop CiB or the ridiculously sized turn bet is better as a bluff here, but eliminating stuff like this completely will help your win-rate more than trying to optimize your FPS.
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-15-2010 , 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CbetIT
UTG+1 showed pocket 2s didn't he.
+1. I doubt he put in the min-raise on the flop without a hand. It doesn't happen much at 10NL.
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-15-2010 , 11:22 PM
Out of curiosity (i.e. not nececelery disagreeing with the consensus ITT) are there threads out there where the consensus agrees with a bluff by the OP?
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-15-2010 , 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grinningco
Out of curiosity (i.e. not nececelery disagreeing with the consensus ITT) are there threads out there where the consensus agrees with a bluff by the OP?
If you're asking whether or not 2p2ers ever support bluffs, the answer is yes.

Shipping the turn is much preferable to shipping the river. At least get it in when you have some equity, not to mention when you're facing a weak looking bet. The river shove just looks weird and out of place...did you really b/c the flop and back into a flush with AsKs? A lot of people will look you up in this spot with marginal hands.

As played I don't think it's a horrific bluff since he's showed a lot of weakness. However, you could have avoided this situation by shipping earlier and gaining some equity.
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-15-2010 , 11:37 PM
I agree that this probably works enough of the time to be profitable but was not optimal.
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-15-2010 , 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CbetIT
UTG+1 showed pocket 2s didn't he.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saleens281sc
+1. I doubt he put in the min-raise on the flop without a hand. It doesn't happen much at 10NL.
pocket 2s would make sense

you COULD shove the flop, but there's like a 0% chance he folds other htan a misclick. i play same way but i'd usually check behind on the river.
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-15-2010 , 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackgerbil1
dont bluff ur stack @ 10NL with air.

should of shoved on flop or turn
+1
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-16-2010 , 01:17 AM
Grunch!

I fold pre flop, QTo is not good enoguh to ISO a LAGs EP limp unless you know he does this specifically with PPs, then its ok. If villain was more passive post flop then I would ISO more liberally.

As played, I would fold the turn. I think villain has a decent hand most of the time when he raises that flop. Only hand he might be Sbluffing with is AQ or maybe QT but AQ he probably raises pre-flop and since we have QT its a bit more unlikely he does also, its also probably not in his EP limping range.

On the river villains check is pretty weak so a bluff might work, just depends on whether you think villain will be folding weak Kings, and the chance he was bluffing himself. Definately worth a try imo on the river as it only has to work about 40% of the time and you can easily represent a legit hand such as AK or KQ. Remember to think of your own image though, whats the general image you think this villain has of you?

But anyway I think you should have folded on the turn. You are getting a bit more than 3:1 and are a 4.5:1 dog vs. the majority of villains range. So you would have to collect another about $3 everytime you make your straight on the river if I'm not mistaken.
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-16-2010 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorFarha
pocket 2s would make sense from a terrible fish donk...
FYP:

if villain had pocket two he played it awful.
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-16-2010 , 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siti_11
Grunch!

I fold pre flop, QTo is not good enoguh to ISO a LAGs EP limp unless you know he does this specifically with PPs, then its ok. If villain was more passive post flop then I would ISO more liberally.

As played, I would fold the turn. I think villain has a decent hand most of the time when he raises that flop. Only hand he might be Sbluffing with is AQ or maybe QT but AQ he probably raises pre-flop and since we have QT its a bit more unlikely he does also, its also probably not in his EP limping range.

On the river villains check is pretty weak so a bluff might work, just depends on whether you think villain will be folding weak Kings, and the chance he was bluffing himself. Definately worth a try imo on the river as it only has to work about 40% of the time and you can easily represent a legit hand such as AK or KQ. Remember to think of your own image though, whats the general image you think this villain has of you?

But anyway I think you should have folded on the turn. You are getting a bit more than 3:1 and are a 4.5:1 dog vs. the majority of villains range. So you would have to collect another about $3 everytime you make your straight on the river if I'm not mistaken.
2nd this. I think the QTo pf iso is a style thing, but when I played 10nl I would fold these pf spots pretty much every time.

Turn fold is good if you think villain has a hand like 2p+ but I think there's significant equity to be gained when we fold him out or draw out. shoving/folding > calling definitely.
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-16-2010 , 06:52 PM
Its 10NL. No. You are going to go on lifetilt if you even try to bluff 10NL. They will call with things that make you question what the meaning of life is. Don't do it. Just play solid, nothing fancy, wait until 50nl or at least some 25nl regs to be making moves.
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote
01-16-2010 , 10:59 PM
I think the shove here doesn't quite make sense. It seems inconsistent with your line. You smooth called the turn bet (which was less than half the pot), so it seems like you either have a marginal hand here (not TP), or a drawing hand. The problem with the drawing hand is that I don't think 2 sapdes would have played the flop the way you did. If you're going to shove, I think you should shove the turn here. I lean more towards folding the turn, though. The min-raise on the flop usually means he has something.
10NL Questionable River Bluff Shove Quote

      
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