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10NL: KK facing a shove multiway on bad flop 10NL: KK facing a shove multiway on bad flop

07-28-2008 , 03:40 AM
This hand came up during Friday night session. The presense of SB between me and the reg changes the hand dynamics a bit, making this hand perhaps at least somewhat interesting.

Reads:
SB is unknown, plays about 25/18
UTG+1 is a reg, 14/11 over >300 hands. 3bets ~1% of his hands, but has done so from early position, never from late position. (There is one repop on CO, but that was a 4bet with AA.)

UTG+1 certainly knows my stats, which usually converge around 16/14 but were closer to 11/10 at this time for the session. I'm pretty confident he knows SB's stats as well.

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $7.45
BTN: $5.30
SB: $7.90
BB: $10.00
Hero (UTG): $10.70
UTG+1: $11.80
UTG+2: $11.30
MP1: $2.00
MP2: $9.75

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG with K K
Hero raises to $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, 5 folds, SB calls $0.45, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.60) T 9 Q (3 players)
SB bets $1.10, Hero raises to $3.50, UTG+1 raises to $11.30 all in, SB folds, Hero scratches head

This was possibly the worst flop I can imagine. Not only does it hit standard calling ranges pretty damn hard, but it also gives me a relatively strong hand. In most situations this should be an easy call due to my remaining stack, but texture of the board and action is pretty atrocious. Also, the main problem with the gutshot is that even if I hit it with a clean out (non-diamond), my hand may still not be the best. Frankly, I have trouble assigning villain a reasonable range here. "Just stove it" is not good enough when I'm unsure what the likely holdings are.

At the time this hand occurred, I had seen villain shove only with top two, sets and made [nut] hands. Later on in the session I happened to snap him on a bad semi-bluff, when he shoved a baby flush draw. But when this hand was played, I did not have that information yet. I also have a note on him that he employs a good strategy against shorties. A decent player, and definitely above average in 10NL.

1) Can we call here profitably?
2) Would the answer change with the additional read?
3) What if villain was in later position and there was a flat-caller between me and him?
10NL: KK facing a shove multiway on bad flop Quote
07-28-2008 , 03:55 AM
The only logical hand I can put him on that you're slightly ahead of is JJ. I think he puts you on the type of hand you have and isn't afraid of it.

As for ranges, he's more than likely holding a pair. If he's a decent reg, he's probably not calling with SCs UTG+1. If he does have SCs, it really looks like he flopped awesome to a made hand or a huge draw. Against both of those, things don't look good for you. I think you are up against JJ at worst, probably 99/TT or big combo draw.

I don't think he's trying to iso the short stack after all this action has taken place.

I fold.

For your additional questions:

1) I think no.
2) Was the hand in which he shoved a baby flush draw played out the same? Did he 4-bet on a super drawy flop against a regular?
3) He still has the same range, but it's more heavily weighted towards big draws, IMO.
10NL: KK facing a shove multiway on bad flop Quote
07-28-2008 , 05:20 AM
hrm..i don't think we're good here. based off your read reads, i think villain is only doing this with a set or KJ and am leaning more towards a set. Most tags would not be stacking off on a drawy board like this if they had an over pair. I think villain has QQ here, but then again, I think that he would 3 bet you with that holding. I think that if he has aces, he would probably be 3 betting you as well.
10NL: KK facing a shove multiway on bad flop Quote
07-28-2008 , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I vi ii V7
2) Was the hand in which he shoved a baby flush draw played out the same? Did he 4-bet on a super drawy flop against a regular?
(Checks hand history) Nope, he limp-called with 76s in MP and b/3b-shoved flop (T 5 K) when we were heads up. As to the AA hand, it was a preflop 4bet.

Apparently I made the correct decision in this hand, but I just wasn't sure. It was a rather tough fold, though: 40% of my stack already in, overpair + gutshot and flop about as wet as they come. Normally that would be like burning money.

Thanks, guys.
10NL: KK facing a shove multiway on bad flop Quote
07-28-2008 , 09:31 AM
i think it is a kick the cat fold.
Your lines look fine to me.
10NL: KK facing a shove multiway on bad flop Quote

      
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