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10NL JJ value bet or donk bet? 10NL JJ value bet or donk bet?

11-20-2008 , 01:01 AM
No reads on either opponent.

AA is ruled out for both players, as well as KK probably from PF action
On flop, A king would normally bet, but I could understand a check at these stakes.
On turn, A King just about always bets here, so I've ruled out him having a K

this leaves him with Ax,QQ, or TT-22. Is my bet good?

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: $0.65
UTG+2: $2.00
MP1: $8.55
MP2: $11.70
Hero (CO): $10.20
BTN: $10.05
SB: $13.05
BB: $9.90
UTG: $12.30

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with J J
4 folds, MP2 raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.20, 2 folds, BB calls $1.10, MP2 calls $0.80

Flop: ($3.65) K 7 4 (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($3.65) K (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $2,
10NL JJ value bet or donk bet? Quote
11-20-2008 , 02:10 PM
bump
10NL JJ value bet or donk bet? Quote
11-20-2008 , 02:47 PM
If you think you have sufficiently ruled out either of them having a K and figure they would have bet to see where they were at with QQ, then it's a good bet although it looks more weakish to me then it does representative of a good hand for value (if I were in your opponent's shoes). Maybe that's what you wanted but I'm assuming you did not want a call here from the tone of your post....so what happened?
10NL JJ value bet or donk bet? Quote
11-20-2008 , 06:59 PM
If this wasn't a 3bet multiway pot, I'd agree with you and bet the turn here for value and protection.

But here, the pot gets big even if you bet only 2. I'd want to shut down if called and fold to aggression. But that's not gonna be so easy if we'd be getting good odds to call.

The turn card ain't bad. If you were ahead, you're prolly still ahead. (I might be pretty weak, but) I'd probably check behind anyway. Nice river cards are 2/3/5/6/8, if it goes again check, check, I'd put in a small value-bet there (of course, river K/J is no-brainer).

EDIT: also interested in seeing how the hand evolved.

Last edited by dumdidum; 11-20-2008 at 07:06 PM.
10NL JJ value bet or donk bet? Quote
11-20-2008 , 08:31 PM
Looks standard to me. I doubt a K is going to allow the FD get there on the flop, so I don't think you're behind here and you have a reasonable chance of getting the odd QQ to fold.
10NL JJ value bet or donk bet? Quote
11-20-2008 , 09:15 PM
what are you running at the table? I think if you're playing moderately aggro, a checked king on the flop might check the third king into you. I don't really see a reason not to check the turn and call a bet on the river if it's not an ace or queen
10NL JJ value bet or donk bet? Quote
11-20-2008 , 10:26 PM
Thanks guys.

For those interested in how it turned out:
I rivered a Jack and shoved. He called with QQ. However, I put him no possibly QQ before he showed it(It wasn't results oriented).
10NL JJ value bet or donk bet? Quote
11-21-2008 , 02:22 AM
Ok
I suggest you subscribe to DC - and watch The Coaching Tree Video series - In I think it is in vid 5 there is a hand just like this and a perfect way of thinking about this hand.

Ok preflop fine...you have raised JJ for value - that is good.

Flop - it is a 3-bet pot - I think it is fine to check behind but a bet for value is not bad either. You can get worse hands to call as alot of PPs will pay one bet. You are not going to get better hands to fold. But you might collect dead money from all sorts of Aces that suck out on you.

Turn - the king repeats. I think we have to bet for value here...We will know for sure if we are behind with a c/r on the turn and are unlikely to get bet off the best hand. We can get alot of value from all badly set mined whiffed PPs.

Now the interesting part of the video is that QQ-JJ is clearly a bet here. Yet 10s-8s is borderline and yet Pocket 2s is also a clear bet. DUCY.

If not subscribe to DC watch that series and you will get a huge leap in insight in these spots.

Gl at the tables and well played.
10NL JJ value bet or donk bet? Quote
11-21-2008 , 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggertheDog
Now the interesting part of the video is that QQ-JJ is clearly a bet here. Yet 10s-8s is borderline and yet Pocket 2s is also a clear bet. DUCY.
i don't really see why... care to explain???

I mean, it's obviously a "what-if" situation as we're never going to be 3b 22 pre, but why bet 22 here and not TT?

you said bet JJ b/c we get value from badly set-mined mid-PP's... we aren't ahead of these when we bet 22 on the turn, unless we are planning a multi-street bluff, which probably isn't too advisable here, and the only big hand we could honesly be repping is KK. (b/c AK leads flop)
10NL JJ value bet or donk bet? Quote
11-21-2008 , 08:54 AM
sorry on flop 22 is always a bet and 1010 is borderline....

The thinking being that 22 can fold out better hands with aggression where 1010 has good showdown value and it prolly only ever collects dead moneyand would only be a bet to protect vs bluffs and suckouts.
10NL JJ value bet or donk bet? Quote
11-21-2008 , 08:55 AM
but watch the vid cause baluga explains it much better than I
10NL JJ value bet or donk bet? Quote

      
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