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10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack 10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack

11-07-2017 , 04:30 PM
Not sure how to play this hand post. I 3bet him and would call a shove vs his small stack. But postflop SPR ratio is so small that I thought it best to jam, he might even call with AK or AJ, or many PP like 88 or 99. On flop pot is 2.30 and he has 3.06 left.

partypoker - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 134.1 BB (VPIP: 19.00, PFR: 9.95, 3Bet Preflop: 2.30, Hands: 225)
Hero (SB): 110.8 BB
BB: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 20.97, PFR: 19.46, 3Bet Preflop: 8.86, Hands: 191)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 29.25, PFR: 23.11, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 221)
MP: 41.6 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 15)
CO: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T T

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 11 BB, fold, MP calls 8 BB

Flop: (23 BB, 2 players) Q 4 6
Hero bets 99.8 BB and is all-in
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote
11-07-2017 , 04:46 PM
3-bet a couple of bbs bigger. I realize it's overkill but having this spr is dumb. Make it a psb otf.

As played, I like it. There are pros and cons to it. With the I think checking or betting 7bbs is a more viable strat.
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote
11-07-2017 , 04:50 PM
I like your line. force him out of the pot unless he has a Q
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote
11-07-2017 , 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by .isolated
3-bet a couple of bbs bigger. I realize it's overkill but having this spr is dumb. Make it a psb otf.

As played, I like it. There are pros and cons to it. With the 10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack: I think checking or betting 7bbs is a more viable strat.
+1
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote
11-07-2017 , 05:58 PM
Given his stack size and the line of action I believe a 8 ~ 13BB Cbet with intention to call a jam in the flop or 2nd barrel shove if he flats flop is ok.

But

I truly don't believe he might have clubs, that 3bet call PF definitely looks like a tight call, and there are no relevant info to take advantage of, then, if he shoves over your cbet, his range will be mostly Big starting hands and AJs+ at best, any other hopes about a random bluff or a random flush draw would be pure guessing given the lack of info in this scenario.

A global view of the situation points towards cbet small + fold flop if shoved or cbet small + jams turn if called. Both lines are better than cbet shove 30bb out of position against a range that will rarely call with hands that you are ahead
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote
11-08-2017 , 03:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihufa
I like your line. force him out of the pot unless he has a Q


cbet small..
By shoving u do the above.
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote
11-08-2017 , 11:06 AM
I would prefer a check/shove or check/call personally. I think we're only getting called by a Q when we shove but if we give them the rope they might just hang themselves.
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote
11-08-2017 , 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StackedYouSon
I would prefer a check/shove or check/call personally. I think we're only getting called by a Q when we shove but if we give them the rope they might just hang themselves.
Agree with this completely.
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote
11-08-2017 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AltoZZ


cbet small..
By shoving u do the above.

Yeah what this guy said
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote
11-08-2017 , 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by njordd
A global view of the situation points towards cbet small + fold flop if shoved or cbet small + jams turn if called. Both lines are better than cbet shove 30bb out of position against a range that will rarely call with hands that you are ahead
This is incorrect. Once we choose to 3bet and get called the SPR is ~1.5. Given the low SPR it would be incorrect for V to fold clubs, worse pp, 6x, and 4x. Shoving is the best play by far, there are so many worse hands that he will call with and we can never fold.
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote
11-08-2017 , 02:07 PM
I'm in the "raise a tiny bit larger PF and shove flop" camp, I guess. It's not like villain's ever going to fold his flush draws or pocket pairs. At least on Ignition 5NLz/10NLz, it seems like the population calls reaaaally lightly here -- like, they just assume you have AK in your range and so they call with 33, so you exploit it by bluffing less and value betting lighter.

To that end, I don't really see the point in betting small and then shoving turn. Villain probably shouldn't fold AK/AJ to a 1/3 PSB, and if he knew our exact hand then that's the correct decision anyway (although I don't know how much people talk about FToP stuff in 2017). He'll call worse hands that have some SDV, but I think he'll also call most of those hands against a PSB shove OTF where the magnitude of his error is larger.

Not a big fan of checking flop when we hate any club, J, K, or A.
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote
11-08-2017 , 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplelessons
This is incorrect. Once we choose to 3bet and get called the SPR is ~1.5. Given the low SPR it would be incorrect for V to fold clubs, worse pp, 6x, and 4x. Shoving is the best play by far, there are so many worse hands that he will call with and we can never fold.
Please show me the worse hands that he would've called a 3bet preflop with a 40bb stacks and a Jam cbet on the flop to change my mind in the direction of "Jamming flop is ok not only will make V folds but also would get value in this texture" currently I see the jam just a little bit like an overplay that will make worse hands to fold or get certainly called by random Q.

X - Cbet small flop / fold is a very tight fold, but I think it's in order assuming V does not have have a large range of clubs.

Y - Cbet small + Call if get shoved is good agains random plays. But is more risky with no info

Z - Cbet small + shove turn if called is good against random calls.

Given the lack of info I think option X and Z is best than shoving flop.

I think shove flop would be perfect in a 322 board for example, here are certainly many weaker hands to get value
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote
11-08-2017 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by njordd
Please show me the worse hands that he would've called a 3bet preflop with a 40bb stacks and a Jam cbet on the flop to change my mind in the direction of "Jamming flop is ok not only will make V folds but also would get value in this texture" currently I see the jam just a little bit like an overplay that will make worse hands to fold or get certainly called by random Q.

X - Cbet small flop / fold is a very tight fold, but I think it's in order assuming V does not have have a large range of clubs.

Y - Cbet small + Call if get shoved is good agains random plays. But is more risky with no info

Z - Cbet small + shove turn if called is good against random calls.

Given the lack of info I think option X and Z is best than shoving flop.

I think shove flop would be perfect in a 322 board for example, here are certainly many weaker hands to get value
Short stack poker. V is never folding pairs or clubs. He is getting 33% so if we ever shove AK he just has to call.
X - Folding is out of the question vs someone who starts the hand with 40bb on a 20bb pot.
Y - He shoves the same hands he calls with if we just shove.
Z - Why give him a cheap price on a turn? We wouldn't bet small with AK. Consider V's range, he has mostly smaller pairs and suited connectors. Do you really think he folds 88 if we shove? I don't, but if he does I don't mind it because it just makes AK that much more profitable when we shove in this spot.
10nl: 3bet TT vs short stack Quote

      
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