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100NL: Turn decision deep in 3bp 100NL: Turn decision deep in 3bp

01-14-2013 , 05:53 AM
Villain is a reg, we're 3 tabling. his raise sb is 52, fold to 3b 19, fold to cb in 3bp 55 these are over 1k ish hands.

He has raise small and folded to a shove in 3bp 1 or 2 times, he has also raised small and called pair + fd.

I am pretty sure I should have checked the flop? Whats our plan as played?

Thanks


    Full Tilt, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 2 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #15414731

    SB: $221.50 (221.5 bb)
    Hero (BB): $244 (244 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with J A
    SB raises to $3, Hero raises to $10, SB calls $7

    Flop: ($20) 4 Q J (2 players)
    Hero bets $11, SB raises to $22, Hero calls $11

    Turn: ($64) A (2 players)
    Hero checks, SB bets $39




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    100NL: Turn decision deep in 3bp Quote
    01-14-2013 , 06:06 AM
    Is that a deep table and starts the playername with axxxx ? (stats look familar to a guy I played nl50 deep but unlikely he is going to 3table nl100)

    I would almost always cbet the flop except I have some pretty good reads about his play when check to. Even when he is clicking my cbets alot back, I still think im ahead of his range for doing it, so I can call.
    Now, I dont see any other option than calling. KT is def. in his range and you block all nutfds. Not sure he would bet KQ or KJ or other SDV here again, so call and keep his range as wide as possible. You will get pretty tough river decisions but thats how deep poker is
    100NL: Turn decision deep in 3bp Quote
    01-14-2013 , 07:11 AM
    Flop cbet is too small.

    I'd want a pretty loose image to c/r this turn. Would you be making a turn c/r with many bluffs (i.e are you balanced here)? Do you think c/r turn gets max value from his QJ type hands and air? Do you think he'd size like this if he had KT himself (if he even raises the flop with it)?

    Answer some of those questions and you should be able to work out whether calling or raising is best.
    100NL: Turn decision deep in 3bp Quote
    01-14-2013 , 08:18 AM
    I think flop cbet size is fine, im more concerned with villan's x/r sizing, seems small, is this standard? I would just call and call most rivers
    100NL: Turn decision deep in 3bp Quote
    01-14-2013 , 08:28 AM
    Flop cbet is fine, Im calling here, I only think by raising the only hand you get value from is exactly QJ(unless he has the ability to spazz out)

    As for the river im deciding whether to raise or not based on timing and bet size. Not folding on virtually any river though.
    100NL: Turn decision deep in 3bp Quote
    01-14-2013 , 09:29 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by fiftyfifty01
    I would just call and call most rivers
    yeah i really don't see what else there is to do.
    100NL: Turn decision deep in 3bp Quote
    01-14-2013 , 10:02 AM
    firstly being 220bb i think u messed with ur sizing a bit...otf given that u have As its more difficult for him to raise a draw there (i dont think he would raise any draw other than AsXs KsTs,Ks9s,few if any KTo)..u r given good odds thought and u are right to call..turn is a call..river its card dependant ,i am more afraid of brick cards rather than spade cards...u should be disciplined to make a tough fold if nessesary ...
    100NL: Turn decision deep in 3bp Quote
    01-16-2013 , 02:00 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by IPLAYUPAY
    firstly being 220bb i think u messed with ur sizing a bit...otf given that u have As its more difficult for him to raise a draw there (i dont think he would raise any draw other than AsXs KsTs,Ks9s,few if any KTo)..u r given good odds thought and u are right to call..turn is a call..river its card dependant ,i am more afraid of brick cards rather than spade cards...u should be disciplined to make a tough fold if nessesary ...
    What's the top of your turn fold range? If you're folding top 2 on a brick river because you're afraid of a set, what are you calling with? I guess it depends on what odds he is laying you but it seems like AJ is going to pretty easily still be in the top at least 50% of your range when a brick comes.
    100NL: Turn decision deep in 3bp Quote
    01-16-2013 , 11:26 PM
    What is villains 3-bet call range and is it balanced? Do you think his 3-bet call range consists of AQ QQ and JJ or he always 4-bets those pre? I think K10 and Ksxs is defo in his range when he bets turn. Not sure about AQ QQ and JJ.

    As for his bluffs i see a ton of FD bluffs, open enders (910ss,910o) , gutters especially if you had been 3-betting a c-betting a ton.

    Hence, the only value hands that i see him showing up that you lose to are 44 K10(which are consistent and plausible with his line) . Unless he flats AA QQ JJ AQ often i would consider folding river depending on sizing/board. He may also be valuing worse hands like A4 and QJ.

    With this range assigned i call turn and call river as raising serves no purpose (unless as someone mentioned villain has tendency to spazz out turns).
    100NL: Turn decision deep in 3bp Quote
    01-17-2013 , 04:04 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848
    What's the top of your turn fold range? If you're folding top 2 on a brick river because you're afraid of a set, what are you calling with? I guess it depends on what odds he is laying you but it seems like AJ is going to pretty easily still be in the top at least 50% of your range when a brick comes.
    Sorry for the douche bag self quote but I have been trying to get a better understanding of this concept, and I think it's pretty important. The above statement is wrong is should read what odds he is laying himself from page 113 of MoP. a = s(1+s) is your river folding frequency, also villains value bet to bluff ratio, where s is the betsize in pots.
    100NL: Turn decision deep in 3bp Quote

          
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