Turn bet is okay, but like a poster already mentioned it is only as a semibluff, and not really for value since the majority of his range has your pair of 8's beat here. I think you need a really rock solid read for your turn shove not to be complete spew since if you're behind you are drawing to 2 outs at best.

wow this is really pretty ugly pfff... i agree with betting the flop after he showed weakness because your hand has no showdown value but i would check the turn back after he called because it indicatec that he hit the flop in some way and you have luckily improved to 3 pair but theirs no value in this hand. As played fold to his check-raise.

You are writing that its on of the thirst hands and you are already creating a pot with 3 pair...

NO COMMENT.

I think the number one reason this hand is really bad is that OP doesn't have a read on his opponent. And at 100NL this line is the nuts a majority of the time.

Nice spew.

easy turn fold.
The C/C flop C/R turn line is almost always the nuts or close to it,esp from bad/unknown players.

some thinking players may take this line wit a combo draw but against an unknown it is unlikely

wow i like this hypotecial commentary how do you know how a unkown player reacts in a particular situation? You cant know it so what you are trying to tell us is irrelevant.
His line should basically demonstrate strength but could simply be a poor bluff.
You just repeated what was posted before but things didnt change. It doesnt matter if he has two pair or just top pair which he slowplayed on the flop. Hes obviously-most of the times beat and made a move which works once in a year.

Check back on the turn.

I am so appalled i will write it with CAPS LOCK:

WHY ARE YOU BETTING TURN?
WHY ARE YOU SHOVING???
His turn c/r is a bluff like never, and he's calling you so much more than your bluff odds.

It's like you don't know what to do...SO YOU GO ALL IN

The turn cr is a bluff much more than you think, try to call down sometimes

also I really hoped I wouldnt need to say this, but guys, I am not shoving because I dont want to fold a pair. I think he is bluffing very often and I am rebluffing. DUH. the math says its a bad play but I actually had to go through that myself as all you were able to say is "OMG YOURE BETTING THIRD PAIR HOW DUMB IS THAT"

i promise you we all play poker, you don't need to instruct us in giving you advice based on your experiences rather than our collective ones. we're giving you simple answers because the answer to this hand is simple and you're making a dumb play.

Well, I can't defend the play without some sort of context; however there have been some daft responses. For instance suggesting that he folds all hands you beat and calls with those that beat you is simply crazy. Also to state 'this happens like once a year' is to testify to being the victim of the most savage of cognitive biasses. I'd be very happy backing '5-1 the fold' when his chips went in.

To the people are saying: he's like never bluffing in this spot - I commend your game selection!

Also if the guy is typically betting this spot on the turn, then his push play is quite obviously much more acceptable over those that wouldnt turn-bet.

Don't be an idiot. This is a hand that's likely not folding way more often than a hand that is bluffing.

And really, how many of you have shoved/called down enough to know this turn c/r is a bluff more than a hand we're not getting a fold out of? I say none of you.

Let's play smart in these spots, villain is an unknown, it's better to err on the side of caution (i.e. giving villain credit) than to go nutso, and hope he's bluffing.

cliffs of topic:

OP runs a super spewy bluff with the best hand in a spot where villain's range owns his. It works, and he decides to come to 2+2 to get some street cred and look half-way intelligent.

Spoilers:





He fails

When I first started I used to never fold any top pair. I've been owned enough to learn to give turn C/Rs some respect.

At the start of a match against an unknown opponent, it's hard to justify not getting to showdown with OP's hand. We have SD value and the river will go check/check very often.

I like to know what my opponent is capable of calling with on that flop and there is no reason to get fancy by betting with a "blocker".

The actual "blocker" argument is thin until you KNOW that 88 is the only hand villain plays this way. You don't have this information early in a match. For all we know, villain could have KK...

this is a example for overplaying a hand... you could beat a bluff on the turn so why should you reraise if you are in the position to flat call and see the river provided you are very certain that hes bluffing.

Generally you cant know that vs an unkown so its maybe better to keep the pot small till with have more information about his play.

1. in my experience unknown players are generally bad until they prove otherwise and not the other way around esp at 100NL.And bad players more often than not take this line as a value line.



2.There is no need to be a condescending ass

3. i dont read the entire thread before i respond i dont need to,i read the OP,and post my reply for 2 reasons,1. to answer the OPs question,and to get my own thoughts down in print as it helps me to solidify what i believe to be a valid thought process at the time,then i go on to read the rest of the replies to see how my own thought process either agrees with or differs from others.

If i find at this point that my thought process is contrary to a majority of the other posters,i then go over the OP and other replies again and do my best to understand where my thought process has gone wrong and learn from it.

10,000 posts and no grasp of probability. Now reread my post and try replying again.