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 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here?  SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here?

10-22-2008 , 12:43 PM
Right,

Villain was somehow a +2% ROI. Did some dumb stuff. Previous match stacked off light and also caught her bluffing a fair bit.

When she bets she continues to bet. Usually for POT. So if she POTs flop it's coming again.


Full Tilt Poker $10 + $0.50 Heads Up Sit & Go No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN/SB): t1190
Vouivre (BB): t1810

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BTN/SB with Q K
Hero raises to t50, Vouivre calls t30

Flop: (t100) 5 9 K (2 players)
Vouivre bets t100, Hero calls t100

Turn: (t300) T (2 players)
Vouivre bets t300, Hero calls t300

River: (t900) T (2 players)
Vouivre bets t900, Hero calls t740 all in


My rationale to slowplay here is this.

I have TP with a good kicker. Villain is spewing everywhere and i have the FD to back me up. This is a draw/hand i would bet to death or stack to Re-raises but villain is doing the betting for me so why scare her off when 1/2 the cards that come will give me 2nd nuts anyway etc.

I just feel she's betting for me so why not let her bluff off her whole stack whilst i hit 2nd nuts or showdown my TPGK?

Or should i be getting it in on flop or turn?

I'm in a bit of a tilty mood today so i've probs played this disgustingly bad but i feel like my judgement was ok on this one considering villain was defo betting turn for POT.

Thanks all,
French_Kido
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 01:10 PM
You have position so no danger of giving free cards. You a high top pair and strong draw so you have little chance of getting outdrawn usually.

Given reads I think it's well played.
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 01:39 PM
I think it's fine with your reads. It just sucks when you do this and they back door 2 pair or something stupid then you question yourself on it. Given the flush draw I think it's well played.

I probably go ahead and push the turn most of the time though.
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 02:15 PM
I agree with Punches, flop if fine but I would jam the turn.
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 03:37 PM
As long as you never fold river when you call turn, this is played perfectly imo.
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 03:42 PM
I like the turn call.

If they're going to call you light anyways, you can just shove the river when they check (checking often means a weakish pair on the river vs these types) and still catch the pure air pot bluff bc you're in position.

While Tx isn't a great river card, it shouldn't make you want to shove the turn anymore than you already want to bc 99% of the time no matter what happens you both get it in when she has a ten, regardless of her hitting 3 of a kind on the river or not, or you raising the turn or flatting it, you have less than a psb left and if she checks the river you should be shoving your hand always, and if she shoves the river you should be calling always.

So, basically I like this line and would shove everytime villain checks the river/call any shove villain makes.
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy
...you have less than a psb left and if she checks the river you should be shoving your hand always, and if she shoves the river you should be calling always...
Are you saying this as a general default play, or just against this particular villain?
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punchespilot
I think it's fine with your reads. It just sucks when you do this and they back door 2 pair or something stupid then you question yourself on it. Given the flush draw I think it's well played.

I probably go ahead and push the turn most of the time though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by textom50
I agree with Punches, flop if fine but I would jam the turn.
Knowing the way this villian is described, I would never shove the turn. That kills off any opportunity for villian to bluff shove river. What are we scared of on river other than maybe an A (giving A9, A5 type holdings two pair)? Q gives us two pair (though does give KJ type holdings a straight), J gives us a straight, any diamond gives us at least second nut flush, and all other cards seem to be blanks.

QJ is already there.

I think turn call is definitely best.
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy
I like the turn call.

If they're going to call you light anyways, you can just shove the river when they check (checking often means a weakish pair on the river vs these types) and still catch the pure air pot bluff bc you're in position.

While Tx isn't a great river card, it shouldn't make you want to shove the turn anymore than you already want to bc 99% of the time no matter what happens you both get it in when she has a ten, regardless of her hitting 3 of a kind on the river or not, or you raising the turn or flatting it, you have less than a psb left and if she checks the river you should be shoving your hand always, and if she shoves the river you should be calling always.

So, basically I like this line and would shove everytime villain checks the river/call any shove villain makes.
I wasn't so confused about the river situation. This hand was felting no matter what. If she checks, it's in and if she bets, it's in.

I like the analysis of the turn play. I wasn't too sure if i was over complicating things here/getting a bit flairy. But with all of the insights i think we're felting this hand and there's not really a great deal of difference between felting turn than river,against most villains.

But i think because she was stacking light it made more sense to just call and then hope she would go for the full on shove. I wasn't over the moon when i saw the board pair like it did but i was getting it in none the less.

Are we not losing value by shoving the turn? Our hand is so strong i think it can take a river and then we get value from missed draws,weaker K's and everything else someone stacking off light would push.

Thanks,
French_Kido.

Last edited by French_Kido; 10-22-2008 at 05:07 PM. Reason: grammar
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 05:07 PM
atticus: That turn line makes more sense. Thanks, that's what I come here for.
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trankuility
Are you saying this as a general default play, or just against this particular villain?
I meant against particular villain but...

Hard to have a default, but assuming no reads and same hand/board on turn, I would suggest to shove when checked to or call a shove on any river.
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 05:51 PM
The only thing about a default line, is that raising the turn becomes a more favorable option the less bluffy, less loose a player is.

The one thing to consider about "scaring" them off a hand is that a player that gets it in light on the turn is likely to get it in light on the river, after all it is less than a psb left so villain would have to see a very very bad card (and none really exists from villain's standpoint on average except maybe like Ad, Ax, a diamond high to low, in that order imo) to fold the river with a hand that gets it in on the turn.

There are a few other aspects to this the turn play, such as villain getting it in with naked diamond draws but not bluffing the river if called on turn and missing, or the rare "will bet/call a raise with a combo draw but check fold when the draw misses on the river," but I think vs an extreme opponent (as is the case in your OP) the decision to call or shove the river is very clear.
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 07:20 PM
I'm replying without reading other replies first.

I think i would have played it just the same. It's hard to go wrong against a donkey like her in this situation.... and if she gets lucky and hits her second pair, then i'd just consider it a cooler and shrug.
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 08:06 PM
This is very standard against a villain who pots every street.

Raising is going to make them stop potting pretty often.

I want the money to get in, and they're going to accomplish that without my help.
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-22-2008 , 11:28 PM
this is not slowplaying. this is standard and how it should be played.
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote
10-23-2008 , 08:11 AM
fine i call call call/raise
 SNG- Naughty to slowplay or ok here? Quote

      
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