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10 nl Aces min raise on Flop 10 nl Aces min raise on Flop

03-02-2014 , 09:16 PM
Villain was 32/16 after 19 hands. Where exactly did I go wrong here??

    Merge, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    CO: $17.30 (173 bb)
    BTN: $1.28 (12.8 bb)
    SB: $10.61 (106.1 bb)
    BB: $9.90 (99 bb)
    UTG+2: $9 (90 bb)
    MP1: $11.15 (111.5 bb)
    Hero (MP2): $11.11 (111.1 bb)
    MP3: $5.21 (52.1 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A A
    UTG+2 calls $0.10, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 4 folds, BB calls $0.30, UTG+2 folds

    Flop: ($0.95) 2 5 6 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $0.75, BB raises to $1.50, Hero calls $0.75

    Turn: ($3.95) 2 (2 players)
    BB bets $2.25, Hero calls $2.25

    River: ($8.45) 5 (2 players)
    BB bets $3, Hero calls $3

    Spoiler:
    Results: $14.45 pot ($0.80 rake)
    Final Board: 2 5 6 2 5
    BB showed 3 4 and won $13.65 ($6.50 net)
    Hero showed A A and lost (-$7.15 net)
    10 nl Aces min raise on Flop Quote
    03-03-2014 , 12:33 AM
    I raised and get it in asap. He can have 56, 77-JJ, 6x and FDs and extra random hands like 4x, 3x here
    10 nl Aces min raise on Flop Quote
    03-03-2014 , 01:03 AM
    Small stakes players are composed mostly of fish, and fish always minraise with the nuts. He'll do this with any set, 2 pair, and of course straight. Nobody is ever minraising 77 or JJ like this. I have occasionally seen it done with a draw by more aggressive fish who simply misapply bet-sizing with their aggression. In any event when you see this river and he's still betting, every pair he could have had just graduated to trips most likely. It's pretty wishful thinking that he doesnt have at least trips even if he was being stupid with a hand like 56.

    I probably raise flop since I'm multi-tabling and not exactly trying to hand read some player at NL2, to which he'd certainly min3bet me again or just go allin. At that point it's a clear fold without holding even the Ace of hearts.
    10 nl Aces min raise on Flop Quote
    03-04-2014 , 04:43 AM
    Against someone who seems pretty splashy I think it looks ok. Splashy fish show up with some weird hands sometimes.
    10 nl Aces min raise on Flop Quote
    03-04-2014 , 05:28 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by javi
    I probably raise flop since I'm multi-tabling and not exactly trying to hand read some player at NL2, to which he'd certainly min3bet me again or just go allin. At that point it's a clear fold without holding even the Ace of hearts.
    You're raising flop because you expect him to 3bet you? What's the point in raising the flop then if you just plan on folding to that 'certain' 3bet? Sounds like you're raising for information which is just bad.

    I also don't understand why you wouldn't try to hand-read someone at 2nl. If you can't hand-read a 2nl fish then what chance do you have against more sophisticated opponents? Just because his range is wide and can have some random stuff in it doesn't mean you can't put him on a range.

    Also if you're raising, then I'd much rather not have the A because NFDs are going to make up a large part of his bluff raising range, and if we have the A we'd block all those bluffs.
    10 nl Aces min raise on Flop Quote
    03-04-2014 , 06:51 AM
    IMHO - it's all about the whale's aggro stats. For this to be reliable you'll be needing a reasonable sample size which is often not possible for fish. They rarely put in huge volume for us to build converging stats and they often bust out of sessions and quit for the day.

    If he ain't aggro ever then he has one pair beat here. Passive fish play their hands honestly. They raise the nuts, call with pairs, interestingly they can raise with 2P fairly often but only call down with trips. I suspect they believe 2P to be the stronger hand.

    Without a great deal of stats then it has to come down to experience and intuition. Both if which usually tell me that aces OP is no good vs a raise from this villain type.

    I have a rule which is based on the following principle.

    Fish usually have what they say they have.

    My rules is, if ever in any doubt, take the easy way out - that is to fold.

    Sucks folding aces but if a fish usually has what he says he has, he is passive then he raises, he has the nuts, not a pair. So how good is your 1P hand?

    That being said I will admit folding is hard here and I have probably paid the fish way more often than my gut instincts would tell me to and I am poorer for it.

    I hate paying fish.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using 2+2 Forums
    10 nl Aces min raise on Flop Quote
    03-05-2014 , 10:57 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PokerRon247
    You're raising flop because you expect him to 3bet you? What's the point in raising the flop then if you just plan on folding to that 'certain' 3bet? Sounds like you're raising for information which is just bad.

    I also don't understand why you wouldn't try to hand-read someone at 2nl. If you can't hand-read a 2nl fish then what chance do you have against more sophisticated opponents? Just because his range is wide and can have some random stuff in it doesn't mean you can't put him on a range.

    Also if you're raising, then I'd much rather not have the A because NFDs are going to make up a large part of his bluff raising range, and if we have the A we'd block all those bluffs.
    My statement that "he surely 3bets us" was based on results. At the time I would not be expecting a 3bet so the raise is for value. When he does 3bet as we can be sure he would have, then I would pause, think for a moment, and recognize this isnt a draw but rather him betting for value, and the only value on a 256hh board is 2pair+.

    I dont try to hand read at NL2 because their ranges consist of 50% of the deck on average, and because the risk of making mistakes against these players is so low I wouldnt want to give myself a headache for what are usually trivial decisions.

    The reason I'd rather have the A is precisely as you indicated, we have a blocker to the NFD, which makes it less likely he is bluffing, and thus a more easy fold for us.
    10 nl Aces min raise on Flop Quote

          
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