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10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. 10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser.

02-20-2009 , 08:03 AM
Not sure how long I'd been at the table but had no reads on villain as was not using HUD. Looking at PT3 today I see he's 47/13 over 50 hands. Not much to go on.

Obviously with the UTG raise I felt he had a strong hand, AA, KK, AKs/o.

Did I get my money in right?

Full Tilt Poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP: $5.00
Hero (CO): $5.10
BTN: $5.22
SB: $12.07
BB: $6.69
UTG: $3.87

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is CO with J Q
UTG raises to $0.17, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.17, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.41) 2 Q J (2 players)
UTG bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1.35, UTG raises to $2.40, Hero raises to $4.93 all in, UTG calls $1.30 all in
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote
02-20-2009 , 08:18 AM
Im assumin AQ most of the time, possibly set but unlikely I think.

Given villain's stats and limits, I think that's a good push

Interested in results
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote
02-20-2009 , 08:48 AM
Quote:
Obviously with the UTG raise I felt he had a strong hand, AA, KK, AKs/o
this is 6max not FR and you didnīt had stats on him you said so your range for him is waaay to tight imo. And why do you have PT and play w/o a HUD??
What do you wanna hear about the hand? "yes fold because there are like 5 combos that beat you..."

sorry if I sound harsh but posting hands like this one is just unnecessary / belongs in BBV
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote
02-20-2009 , 08:49 AM
You gotta figure you're up against AQ/KK/AA here often, so you can't feel bad about felting top 2 here.
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote
02-20-2009 , 08:55 AM
Considering he's a 47/13, I don't think he's much of a player. I don't know why you raised the flop though.. Against his range (which by the way, is way wider than AA, KK, AKs/o), you have a lot of FE when you raise. With your hand (and it's strength against this player), you do not want him to fold. flop is dry as well, so you don't have to protect your hand, as there are no real draws out there.
call the flop.
depending on turn (which card, villains action): call, raise, bet.
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote
02-20-2009 , 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEXOWNS
Considering he's a 47/13, I don't think he's much of a player. I don't know why you raised the flop though.. Against his range (which by the way, is way wider than AA, KK, AKs/o), you have a lot of FE when you raise. With your hand (and it's strength against this player), you do not want him to fold. flop is dry as well, so you don't have to protect your hand, as there are no real draws out there.
call the flop.
depending on turn (which card, villains action): call, raise, bet.
(the majority of) bad players do not often fold so it is good to try to get it in on the flop because I donīt slowplay "monsters" against bad villains. If he doesnīt have a hand he will slow down anyhow so raising is absolutely right imo.
oh and btw I think the term "FE" doesnīt fit in your context... correct me if Iīm wrong but doesnīt fold equity mean you gain value from make ur opponent fold better hands?
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote
02-20-2009 , 09:17 AM
Agree with the fact that bad players do not fold all that often, but I do think he's folding a good number of hands on this board. Maybe I used the term fold equity in the wrong context, not sure. What I mean to say was that by raising he's going to fold the biggest part of his range, which is not what I would like to achieve.
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote
02-20-2009 , 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEXOWNS
Agree with the fact that bad players do not fold all that often, but I do think he's folding a good number of hands on this board. Maybe I used the term fold equity in the wrong context, not sure. What I mean to say was that by raising he's going to fold the biggest part of his range, which is not what I would like to achieve.
but this part of his range he folds we probably wonīt get much value from anyhow no matter if we flat call or raise. And donīt forget that our top2 arenīt immortal.

What if for example villain has KK and an A comes on the turn we prolly donīt stack him but we would on the flop.

fwiw I just hate slowplay most of the time and find no reason to get fancy against a bad villain
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote
02-20-2009 , 09:47 AM
A few quick points:

I agree with some of the others, your pre-flop range on that guy is way too tight. First of all, it's .02/.05, 6 handed. Second, the guy plays almost 50% of hands and raises like 1/3 of them. He could easily have A-x, any broadway cards or PP's.

It's very likely he has something like A-Q here. And even if he DOES have K-K, A-A, or A-K, you have him beat with 2 pair. I mean, the hand ranges aren't even close here. Your only beat against like 3 hands out of 30 possible in the range.

Oh, and I like the cold call pre-flop. Your in position and have a pretty good hand. Raising here doesn't do much, as I think someone else said, players at this level don't know when to fold. You could argue that your getting more money in while in position, but against the hands raised from UTG J-Qs isn't that great and why build a big pot with only an ok hand that could be already dominated?

Plus, if you get a call from the blinds, J-Qs can play well in a multi-way pot with it's flush/straight/two pair possibilities.

PUSH! You did the right thing getting your money in here IMO.

-Brian

Last edited by BrianFLState; 02-20-2009 at 09:53 AM.
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote
02-20-2009 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonitto
but this part of his range he folds we probably wonīt get much value from anyhow no matter if we flat call or raise. And donīt forget that our top2 arenīt immortal.

What if for example villain has KK and an A comes on the turn we prolly donīt stack him but we would on the flop.

fwiw I just hate slowplay most of the time and find no reason to get fancy against a bad villain
I do agree 2 pair is not even close to a lockdown. I'm just unsure whether f.e. AQ or KQ would stack off here, maybe this particular villain would? I think that a call would shape our range into something like this: sets, 2 pairs, strong and weak queens, strong and weak jacks, bluffs (both semi bluffs and complete bluffs). villain might think he's able to make us lay down some of those hands, but I have to admit that I'm not sure this villain would.

there definitely is a case to be made for raising (both for protection and value), so I should have formulated my original question differently.
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote
02-20-2009 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonitto
this is 6max not FR and you didnīt had stats on him you said so your range for him is waaay to tight imo. And why do you have PT and play w/o a HUD??
What do you wanna hear about the hand? "yes fold because there are like 5 combos that beat you..."

sorry if I sound harsh but posting hands like this one is just unnecessary / belongs in BBV
This is not just harsh it's wrong and ill thought out. It's not really worthy of any answer but I'll give you one anyway.

No HUD because I don;t want to rely on it, I think this is a habit I want to get out of.

What I was looking for was if this was the correct decision or not.
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote
02-20-2009 , 12:56 PM
Thanks for the input guys...Here's how it ended.

This is why I never slowplay!

Full Tilt Poker, $0.02/$0.05 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

MP: $5
Hero (CO): $5.10
BTN: $5.22
SB: $12.07
BB: $6.69
UTG: $3.87

Pre-Flop: J Q dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG raises to $0.17, MP folds, Hero calls $0.17, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.41) 2 Q J (2 Players)
UTG bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1.35, UTG raises to $2.40, Hero raises to $4.93 and is All-In, UTG calls $1.30 and is All-In

Turn: ($7.81) 2 (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($7.81) A (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $7.81 Pot ($0.52 Rake)
Hero showed J Q (two pair, Queens and Jacks) and LOST (-$3.87 NET)
UTG showed A A (a full house, Aces full of Twos) and WON $7.29 (+$3.42 NET)
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote
02-20-2009 , 02:55 PM
if the villain is tight, he could easily be loose pre-flop in micro. So this is a good push of yours (against 5 outs) and sorry for the bad results (both his outs appear.).
10 NL 2 pair (faces) on the turn aginst a riaser. Quote

      
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