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 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on  HUSNG. Calling a shove early on

03-11-2010 , 03:16 PM
Opponent was a winning player with sharkscope with winnings of 10x more than my bankroll & he'd played a lot more games than me (so I was thinking I might be in for a challenge). We'd only played 9 hands so I don't know what he thought of me (my sharkscope shows 200 games on FT with a ROI of 25% - with a small sample like that I doubt he'd be that scared ). In those 9 hands he'd 3bet pre once already fwiw.

I couldn't see him doing this with Kx though, so I called the shove thinking 6 & 8 probably wasn't part of his 3bet range other than 88 or 66 maybe. Was that good or bad thinking?

Full Tilt Poker $10 + $0.50 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t1470 M = 49
Hero (BTN/SB): t1530 M = 51

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BTN/SB with A 6
Hero raises to t60, BB raises to t220, Hero calls t160

Flop: (t440) 8 K 6 (2 players)
BB bets t1250 all in, Hero calls...
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-11-2010 , 03:29 PM
why the hell good thinking player overbet shoves this flop with 8x or 6x?
I think ur hand is sooooo weak here. hes obv defending hes hand against FD or STr8 draw. Board is so ugly i jam my kings on this flop ewery day a week.
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-11-2010 , 03:35 PM
This is a spew. You obviously made a hero call and happened to be right. In the long run this is spewing.
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-11-2010 , 04:12 PM
Fold pf, in my opinion. Him having 3bet once before, even in a nine hand span, is not quite sufficient for us to want to call a 3bet of that size, especially if our only real reads are that villain is an experienced winner. If he had made it 180, or if you had opened for 40 and he'd made it 120-140, then I feel happier about calling pf.

Two things about the flop:

1) His openshove indicates that in spite of his experience and results, his game and poker logic are probably crude. At best, he may be employing a simple "bet huge pre and post with monsters" approach, since people at low limits will pay that off. Otherwise, he could be shoving a draw like AsXs or something. We can't know at this point, but the signs suggest this person might be far from a sophisticated player.

2) You should definitely fold. His shoving range is a bit of mystery, and weighting it away from Kx is probably reasonable, but we're getting a bad price, and we're actually behind much of his semi-bluffing range (flush draws, straight draws), and in not very good shape against spazz plays with random overcards to our 6, QQ-77, or even 8x.

So fold, make a note, track his bet sizing as the match continues, and watch for spots where he makes plays like this to figure out his (possibly simplistic) thought process.

Last edited by lagdonk; 03-11-2010 at 04:38 PM. Reason: can't can't can't meet March goals ... :(
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-11-2010 , 04:48 PM
bah fold pre, fold flop

edit: BTW in my experience a good SS rating at low stakes doesn't mean anything, you won't believe how terrible some 10-15% winners are
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-11-2010 , 05:52 PM
ok, I need to tighten my game obv - thanks for the advice.

I was surprised at the fold pre though - is that because his 3bets are large, or just because A6s isn't good against a 3bet?
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-11-2010 , 05:55 PM
Probably because A6 is dominated or behind most normal peoples standard 3betting range, what kind of flop are you hoping to see that you will really like?

Dont bother checking SS before playing a game at the 10$ you will fill your head with misconceptions about their play, take it easy for a few hands and adapt once you have an idea of how he plays.
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-11-2010 , 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meteoric
ok, I need to tighten my game obv - thanks for the advice.

I was surprised at the fold pre though - is that because his 3bets are large, or just because A6s isn't good against a 3bet?
I don't mind defending against a potsized 3-bet, but yeah, the large 3bet size is what makes it worse here.

If he's 3-betting frequently and always to this size, A6s is a decent hand to 4-bet shove.
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-11-2010 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mersenneary
I don't mind defending against a potsized 3-bet, but yeah, the large 3bet size is what makes it worse here.

If he's 3-betting frequently and always to this size, A6s is a decent hand to 4-bet shove.
Given that villain has 3bet once already in 9 hands, what would you assign to villain's range when they make the large 3bet?
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-11-2010 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemage55
Given that villain has 3bet once already in 9 hands, what would you assign to villain's range when they make the large 3bet?
Likely to be wide, but still very much a range of possibilities. I'm folding here but open to the possibility that shoving is better or even that I can call profitably. I don't think the two 3bets are quite enough evidence yet.
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-11-2010 , 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mersenneary
Likely to be wide, but still very much a range of possibilities. I'm folding here but open to the possibility that shoving is better or even that I can call profitably. I don't think the two 3bets are quite enough evidence yet.
Thank you for explaining.
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-11-2010 , 11:35 PM
would of deff fold pre flop and deff i wuld of folded on the flop lol cld have flush draw deff 8x k x strt draw. I would think u be down to 5 outs

imo way to early to call a 3 bet this early with out that much info specialy if you see he is a winning player
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-11-2010 , 11:38 PM
a6 just isnt good early of hu vs a arround a 3.5x 3bet u cld so easily dommainted i would 3 bet this early unless wit 99 up ak aq
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote
03-12-2010 , 05:42 AM
Fold>shove>calling. Would much rather have more info about how often he 3bets before i shove A6.
 HUSNG. Calling a shove early on Quote

      
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