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.1/.2 Need help with two different hands .1/.2 Need help with two different hands

02-22-2010 , 03:28 AM
I didn't have a read on any of these opponents really as I had only been at the table for 7 hands before this first hand. The one thing that I had noticed was that the table was playing super passive and there was almost no raising preflop and most hands were won after a single bet. I think there was only one hand that went to showdown while I was at the table and it didn't involve anybody in either of these hands.

This is hand number one:

Full Tilt Poker $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): $1.70
UTG: $2.00
UTG+1: $2.70
MP1: $0.83
MP2: $1.56
CO: $1.79
BTN: $1.57
SB: $3.19

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB with K K
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, MP1 calls $0.02, 1 fold, CO calls $0.02, BTN calls $0.02, SB calls $0.01, Hero raises to $0.15, 2 folds, CO calls $0.13, 1 fold, SB calls $0.13

Flop: ($0.51) 8 A 2 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $0.28, SB calls $0.28, Hero calls $0.28

Turn: ($1.35) Q (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($1.35) Q (3 players)
SB bets $0.58

Almost everyone was in the pot when it got around to me preflop and I just wanted to pick up the pot right there; I was surprised when I got two callers. When the A came on the flop I assumed that at least one of these guys had to have it to have called the big preflop raise.

My plan on the flop was to try to check and if neither guy bet then I would try to take away the pot on the turn. When the CO bet I was hoping that he was just trying to make a move and called with the plan of c/f'ing the turn if he bet at it again. Could I have found a fold when the SB called in front of me? What could he have been calling with?

I was very surprised to see both players check the turn. I didn't want to lead out because I figured the CO would come over the top of me and I would just have to fold anyway.

When the SB raises the river, do I call? He's been very passive the entire hand; was he seriously slow playing a single A this whole way? What do I do if the CO comes over the top behind me? It's a pretty small raise compared to the pot, but I'll be risking my whole stack if I get reraised.

Then two hands later this one comes up:

Full Tilt Poker $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN): $1.25
SB: $2.00
BB: $3.00
UTG: $0.81
UTG+1: $1.56
MP1: $1.36
MP2: $1.98
CO: $3.72

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN with 8 Q
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.02, 1 fold, BB checks

Flop: ($0.09) Q Q 2 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.09) 9 (4 players)
BB bets $0.02, UTG folds, MP1 calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.10, BB folds, MP1 raises to $0.35

Normally, I would never play this hand, but I figured that being on the button at a very passive table might lead to an interesting spot. Should I just fold here?

On the flop I figure that I have to have the best hand when it gets checked around to me. There's no draws at all and I figure there's no way of me making anything more than the pot if I bet out here. Should I be leading out? I've heard that you should never slow play in the micro limits, but I figured this spot would be one of the exceptions for it.

On the turn I figured that the BB was just making a crappy move to steal the pot. I put MP1 on a 9 or a 2 and figure that the pot is big enough for me to win right here, hence the raise. I was completely stumped when MP1 came over the top of me, though. Is it possible that he just thinks his 9 is good here because of the weak flop play? Was he slow playing an over pair and thinks it's good now? Does he have a better Q than me? With these questions in mind, should I flat call the raise or do I just push now and try to get him to double me up?
.1/.2 Need help with two different hands Quote
02-22-2010 , 03:40 AM
Why do you call the flop with 2nd pair in hand one? One buy bets into two people, another one calls, and you think 2nd pair is good?

Hand two, ignoring preflop, you have to bet the flop. There might be some merit to checking if you were first to act, but you are the last one to act. Everyone already checked. Why would you check? Do you not like your hand? As for the turn, I dunno if you can really fold trips here 60bb deep.
.1/.2 Need help with two different hands Quote
02-22-2010 , 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by luka allen
Why do you call the flop with 2nd pair in hand one? One buy bets into two people, another one calls, and you think 2nd pair is good?
I think second pair might be good. It's entirely possible that the CO is betting there just to steal the pot and the SB is calling with something like 99 or TT and thinking the same thing I am. I think laying down second pair to one bet on the flop at the these stakes is -EV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luka allen
Hand two, ignoring preflop, you have to bet the flop. There might be some merit to checking if you were first to act, but you are the last one to act. Everyone already checked. Why would you check? Do you not like your hand? As for the turn, I dunno if you can really fold trips here 60bb deep.
I checked because I figured that I was either in a way ahead or way behind situation. Either someone has 22 or a better Q than me or there's basically no card that can come on the turn that beats me barring someone hitting a 2 outer. So I checked to induce someone trying to steal the flop on the turn or someone hitting something and thinking it was good.

If you don't fold on the turn, do you flat call or do you push over the top?
.1/.2 Need help with two different hands Quote
02-22-2010 , 09:40 PM
You messed up the flop line on each. The KK hand you can c/f or b/f the flop, but under no circumstances should you be calling a bet and an overcall. The Q8 hand, well, let's just say checking behind when closing the action and holding the (virtual) nuts is not... ah... optimal.
.1/.2 Need help with two different hands Quote
02-22-2010 , 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobiscommon
I think second pair might be good. It's entirely possible that the CO is betting there just to steal the pot and the SB is calling with something like 99 or TT and thinking the same thing I am. I think laying down second pair to one bet on the flop at the these stakes is -EV.

I never really played 2NL, but from my understanding, calling with 2nd pair multiway is not +EV in the lower levels. It's not necessarily because it is second pair, more so because the high card is an ace. People like going to the flop with an ace. If you had TT on a J high flop, then you might be able to call. But multiway, you have to fold 2nd pair here. Would you call if you had KQ? KQ=KK here.


I checked because I figured that I was either in a way ahead or way behind situation. Either someone has 22 or a better Q than me or there's basically no card that can come on the turn that beats me barring someone hitting a 2 outer. So I checked to induce someone trying to steal the flop on the turn or someone hitting something and thinking it was good.

If you don't fold on the turn, do you flat call or do you push over the top?

Ok, so you are way ahead or way behind, but that's not the point. You want value from a worse hand. Apparently people like calling with 2nd pair, so you should bet, so 2nd pair will call. And you are only 60bb deep, getting it in on the turn is fine.
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.1/.2 Need help with two different hands Quote
02-22-2010 , 09:44 PM
OK, just read more of the thread... Playing Q8 hand as WA/WB is fine, but that means you call down, not raise the turn. So either bet the flop or call the turn.
.1/.2 Need help with two different hands Quote
02-22-2010 , 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobiscommon
I think second pair might be good. It's entirely possible that the CO is betting there just to steal the pot and the SB is calling with something like 99 or TT and thinking the same thing I am. I think laying down second pair to one bet on the flop at the these stakes is -EV.
Are you kidding? You put in a big raise with KK and get two callers, and then on an A-high flop one of the villains bets and the other calls - and you think your KK is still good there?

Last edited by KurtSF; 02-23-2010 at 12:11 PM. Reason: removed link
.1/.2 Need help with two different hands Quote

      
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