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<img .05/<img .10 Rush Fold KK Preflop? <img .05/<img .10 Rush Fold KK Preflop?

09-20-2010 , 09:12 AM
Would you ever fold KK preflop at a $0.05/$0.10 Rush Table?
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09-20-2010 , 09:47 AM
never
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09-20-2010 , 11:35 AM
6max I never would.

folding KK pre @ FR is prob still bad, as it means your only shoving AA all in pre flop, which makes it transparent when you have AA.

But from my time @ 10nl, FR, people never shove APIF with less then KK unless they are fish
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09-20-2010 , 12:20 PM
ive had that situation happen to me 5 times when I played rush.

all 5 times i was up against AA
<img .05/<img .10 Rush Fold KK Preflop? Quote
09-20-2010 , 01:47 PM
You can

Spoiler:
I won't
<img .05/<img .10 Rush Fold KK Preflop? Quote
09-20-2010 , 02:25 PM
I've played about 150k hands over 5nl and 10nl rush, and although I don't like it, I fold KK very regularly.

It seems every single time I have KK and there's a betting war pre flop, the villain has AA.

There are the odd occasions when that's not the case, usually with short stacks, but ALOT of the time the villain has AA.
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09-20-2010 , 02:30 PM
/\ doing it on a regular basis is probably a huge leak.
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09-20-2010 , 02:37 PM
In around 200K hands I have done it twice, there were 3 other occasions where I would have been comfortable folding it but didn't.

There have been several occasions where I flatted a 3/4 bet though because 4/5 betting would pretty much narrow the villans range to AA.
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09-20-2010 , 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBeard
Would you ever fold KK preflop at a $0.05/$0.10 Rush Table?
ENTIRELY DEPENDEDNT ON VILLAIN AND YOUR IMAGE.

if over 1k hands, the guy has only four bet once,twice, or never im snap folding KK even to a small fourbet.

There is a really good cotw on playing KK pre flop and i forget the exact quote so forgive me, but its something like this ; the mistake people make isnt stacking off with KK pre flop, its not convincing a villian that you will stack off with worse.

So if you have a really good aggro image, stacking KK pre flop will become even more profitable. Even the most descent regs wont fold AKs or QQ at 10nl if you are 3betting 6%+ and have a descently diversified four bet range.
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09-20-2010 , 03:55 PM
It's a bad idea. That said, according to my 80k hand history most regs are only 3b QQ+ and sometimes AK. But still, you cannot fold KK pre because of the simple fact that you are ahead of so much and only behind 1 hand (6 combos), splitting with 1 hand (1 combo left).

This answer is in the stickies, but I will agree that 3bets in rush are pretty heavily AA and KK.
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09-20-2010 , 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkost
It's a bad idea. That said, according to my 80k hand history most regs are only 3b QQ+ and sometimes AK. But still, you cannot fold KK pre because of the simple fact that you are ahead of so much and only behind 1 hand (6 combos), splitting with 1 hand (1 combo left).

This answer is in the stickies, but I will agree that 3bets in rush are pretty heavily AA and KK.


If that's the case, the real answer is to open up your 3b range imo - 3b with A5s type hands, 78s or 33 because people at rush fold too much to 3b (from what I understand).

Poker is like paper scissors rock - every strategy is beaten by another. Somewhere out in math land there is a perfectly balanced strategy (this is the like a gun because it beats paper, rock and scissors) and every time your opponent deviates from this theoretical strategy, he/she/it becomes exploitable. It seems to me that everyone in this thread is thinking far too simply about the problem.

If it is not +EV to stack off with KK, then the correct counter strategy is to flat call a raise with KK and play postflop poker. The other correct adjustment is to raise with hands which you don't mind folding to a 4b. Think about how to exploit your opponents - if they only 3b with KK+, steal like hell from them. If they 3b with QQ+, AK and will only 5b shove with KK+, 3b bluff them. Someone can do the maths to prove that what I said is correct if they want. If your opponents adjust, stacking off with KK is +EV again. If your opponents don't, steal like anything. I'm not advocating bluffing fish, I'm advocating making exploitive plays rather than creating a general strategy.
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09-20-2010 , 09:53 PM
YEh i ask because i've started to play rush 10NL, trying to learn how to play cash games..
I was in a hand where i was dealt K-K, there was one raiser infront of me, i reraised and got 3bet by the initial raiser. His Vp and PR < 7% although i only had 200 hands with him so i shouldnt have derived too much from this.

So i just called the 3bet and the flop came Q-J-4. I thought this was a terrible flop since to be 3betting me pre flop he would probably have JJ+ or AK now of which i can only beat AK anyway he bet 2/3 pot i ended up calling and then we checked down the rest of the hand. Turns out he has K-Q, which got me thinking that i'm going to face something worse than K-K more often than Aces.
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09-20-2010 , 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBeard
YEh i ask because i've started to play rush 10NL, trying to learn how to play cash games..
I was in a hand where i was dealt K-K, there was one raiser infront of me, i reraised and got 3bet by the initial raiser. His Vp and PR < 7% although i only had 200 hands with him so i shouldnt have derived too much from this.

So i just called the 3bet and the flop came Q-J-4. I thought this was a terrible flop since to be 3betting me pre flop he would probably have JJ+ or AK now of which i can only beat AK anyway he bet 2/3 pot i ended up calling and then we checked down the rest of the hand. Turns out he has K-Q, which got me thinking that i'm going to face something worse than K-K more often than Aces.
See, +EV to get it in there huh???
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09-20-2010 , 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lx12
See, +EV to get it in there huh???
lol I don't get what you mean
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09-20-2010 , 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBeard
lol I don't get what you mean
Getting AIPF is +EV in general is what I'm getting at.
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09-20-2010 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lx12
Getting AIPF is +EV in general is what I'm getting at.
oh ok yeh
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