NL 25 fast forward AK nutflushdraw linecheck - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

Villian is an unknown
He is basically repping 6 combos, since I expect a sqeeze with JJ. So I feel like he could have a lot of semibluffs here, and I have a ton of equity. At the same time im a bit concerned that people aren't Xraising 3way that wide.

Someone in my studygroup suggested 3betting the flop, what would be your thoughts on that? I feel floating the XR is better since we can gather more info on villian by seeing what he does

Party, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37932422

Hero (MP): $25 (100 bb)
SB: $32.77 (131.1 bb)
BTN: $30.36 (121.4 bb)
UTG: $28.31 (113.2 bb)
BB: $46.85 (187.4 bb)
CO: $47.42 (189.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K

UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.75, CO folds, BTN calls $0.75, SB folds, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35) 4

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.12, BTN calls $1.12, BB raises to $4.20, Hero calls $3.08, BTN folds

Turn: ($11.87) T

(2 players)
BB bets $7.55, Hero raises to $20.05 and is all-in, BB calls $12.50

River: ($51.97) 3

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

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03-16-2018 , 06:42 AM

IClickButtons

old hand

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,613

call turn, flop may be a check

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03-16-2018 , 06:49 AM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

I'd rather raise with weaker flush draws ott, you have SDV

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03-16-2018 , 08:17 AM

btthywrsooted

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,515

Turn is spew.

Don't see why we would X otf, like it better with AsJs.

3bet flop > raising turn.

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03-16-2018 , 08:25 AM

AltoZZ

adept

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 796

yeah, I think turn is a spew.

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03-16-2018 , 08:43 AM

JamesBJames

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,791

Also not shoving turn because we have more preferable no-SDV draws to do it with, but I don’t think it’s too bad regardless.

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03-16-2018 , 08:45 AM

IClickButtons

old hand

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,613

Quote:

Originally Posted by btthywrsooted

Turn is spew.

Don't see why we would X otf, like it better with AsJs.

3bet flop > raising turn.

Because AsJs is just a one combo. We generally want to have more than one and AKs is the next. There are merits in checking it otf obviously.

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03-16-2018 , 08:46 AM

IClickButtons

old hand

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,613

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBJames

Also not shoving turn because we have more preferable no-SDV draws to do it with, but I don’t think it’s too bad regardless.

What about checking otf?

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03-16-2018 , 09:39 AM

btthywrsooted

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,515

Quote:

Originally Posted by IClickButtons

Because AsJs is just a one combo. We generally want to have more than one and AKs is the next. There are merits in checking it otf obviously.

On second thought I like a bet with AsJs as well. We're 3 way and there is just too much value in betting these hands here otf.

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03-16-2018 , 09:58 AM

#10

IClickButtons

old hand

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,613

Quote:

Originally Posted by btthywrsooted

On second thought I like a bet with AsJs as well. We're 3 way and there is just too much value in betting these hands here otf.

I think betting all FD otf makes it easier to play against

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03-16-2018 , 09:58 AM

#11

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

checking flop is probably best

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03-16-2018 , 10:00 AM

#12

btthywrsooted

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,515

Quote:

Originally Posted by IClickButtons

I think betting all FD otf makes it easier to play against

Not all, But there just is too much value in AsJs and AsKs to not bet them 3 way here. I can get behind checking some K high and Q high FD.

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03-16-2018 , 11:57 AM

#13

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

We will be shipping Turn with some hands for value right? So we would need semibluffs to balance that. I now agree that calling turn is better with this combo, and also see the merit in checking flop, but I feel "spew" is quite a strong word for when we bluff into a range that represents only 6 valuecombos and easily could have bluffs in them. Are you never shipping semibluffs on turn? Could you guys elaborate why that would be spew?

Thanks for any feedback sofar

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03-16-2018 , 01:02 PM

#14

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

hard to spew turn except if we fold

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03-16-2018 , 03:16 PM

#15

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,104

check flop

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03-16-2018 , 03:19 PM

#16

JamesBJames

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 5,791

Quote:

Originally Posted by IClickButtons

What about checking otf?

Seems reasonable. I don't think I defend my checking range enough in multiway pots in practice. We probably want to check somewhat often on a Jxx board anyway, so putting most of our Axcc's in our flop check range makes sense. Maybe some stuff like J9cc or JTcc as well?

I'd bet the worse no-SDV flush draws because they have no SDV and I want some flush draws that I can double barrel.

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03-16-2018 , 08:17 PM

#17

Feng Shui

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 595

I like checking flop here with the nfd 3 way. As played turn is spewy you have no fold equity.

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03-17-2018 , 02:59 AM

#18

yasuo

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 2,105

why is checking flop better than betting

Quote

03-17-2018 , 04:55 AM

#19

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

Why do we have no foldequity? I strongly disagree with that

Quote

03-17-2018 , 06:29 AM

#20

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Of course we have we, almost always in poker. It's just a thing weak-tight players say to justify their bad plays

Quote

03-17-2018 , 07:08 AM

#21

btthywrsooted

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,515

Interested in what the justification is for checking otf.

Seems like a very clear bet 3 way. We have a ton of equity, don't mind to further build the pot and will lose a lot of that equity on the majority of turns.

Bet gii is fine, picking it up right here is fine, getting called is fine. I really don't see any reason not to bet this flop.

Quote

03-17-2018 , 07:31 AM

#22

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

Of course we have we, almost always in poker. It's just a thing weak-tight players say to justify their bad plays

OK thank you. I was really surprised by those statements

Quote

03-17-2018 , 07:33 AM

#23

Andy Art

adept

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 786

Quote:

Originally Posted by btthywrsooted

We are ahead of his air and behind his made hands. So betting is turning our hand into a bluff. This is the NFD with the highest showdownvalue, if we are betting here, we have almost no Flushes in our Xrange when a flush hits turn. That is very exploitable I would think.

Quote

03-17-2018 , 10:47 AM

#24

btthywrsooted

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,515

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Art

His? We are 3 way. Your reasoning makes sense in a headsup situation.

Quote

03-17-2018 , 10:59 AM

#25

Feng Shui

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 595

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Art

Why do we have no foldequity? I strongly disagree with that

You always have some fold equity. I just see very little in this spot given the pot odds villain is getting. There are spots especially hu where i think shoving the flop is the better line. But given it's 3 way and villains raise size i expect a'lot of sets and not to many bluffs. But i would still check some nfd combos on the flop so id be checking this hand 3 way. Given the action in the hand though i don't think the turn has enough fold equity to warrant shoving as a semi bluff. And your getting a good price to make the turn call.

Last edited by Feng Shui; 03-17-2018 at 11:14 AM.

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