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give up or apply pressure? give up or apply pressure?
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04-05-2021 , 02:02 PM
#1
GTOJacob
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centurion
Join Date: Sep 2020 Posts: 161
partypoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

Player3 (UTG): $7.56 (76 bb)
Player4 (MP): $9.58 (96 bb)
Player5 (CO): $10.00 (100 bb)
Player6 (BU): $11.93 (119 bb)
Player1 (SB): $10.52 (105 bb)
Hero (BB): $10.35 (104 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero (Hero) is BB with T♣ J♠
2 players fold, Player5 (CO) raises to $0.25, 2 players fold, Hero (BB) calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.55) 3♣ 2♥ Q♦ (2 players)
Hero (BB) checks, Player5 (CO) checks

Turn: ($0.55) 4♦ (2 players)
Hero (BB) bets $0.63, Player5 (CO) calls $0.63

River: ($1.81) Q♣ (2 players)
Hero (BB) bets $2.50, Player5 (CO) calls $2.50
give up or apply pressure? Quote
04-05-2021 , 02:09 PM
#2
DooDooPoker's Avatar
DooDooPoker
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Don't bet turn you have no equity.

Maybe we can bluff some rivers if turn goes x/x
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04-05-2021 , 02:18 PM
#3
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i think its fine
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04-05-2021 , 02:39 PM
#4
GTOJacob
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centurion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
Don't bet turn you have no equity.
I hear this kind of thing a lot but I don't really understand why. I get that from a GTO perspective I want my betting range to be balanced on the average turn card so it makes sense to barrel some hands with draws and, subsequently, equity.

But if my value range is big enough so that my 'bluffing' range is already balanced but could do with a few more combos, aren't combos with the lowest equity and best card removal the next best choice?
give up or apply pressure? Quote
04-05-2021 , 02:46 PM
#5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOJacob
I hear this kind of thing a lot but I don't really understand why. I get that from a GTO perspective I want my betting range to be balanced on the average turn card so it makes sense to barrel some hands with draws and, subsequently, equity.

But if my value range is big enough so that my 'bluffing' range is already balanced but could do with a few more combos, aren't combos with the lowest equity and best card removal the next best choice?
T high/9 high/8 high all would be bluffed before this.

It could be okay as an exploit but bluffing turns with no equity hands (you don't even have a diamond to bluff diamond rivers) is not the best strategy.

CO should be cbetting range here but if he does have a X back range. His X back range is going to be hands with SDV most likely.

I do like your sizing though. Usually when it goes X/X OTF we want to use 2 sizing's OTT. A small sizing and an OB sizing.

What do you think your value range is OTT? It's not nearly that big when you use that sizing - definitely not big enough to include a random JTo in there.
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04-05-2021 , 03:00 PM
#6
pjj
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I can see the idea, and I think it is good, but if you think about it, you have a lot of hands with better bluffing potential. All FD (although you should check some of those), all Ax, all 5x, all 6x, all 9 and T high left. However, you do block some QJ and QT, as well as JJ and TT, which villain may take this line with. Not saying he should though.

I think your hand would work better as a x/f Ott, and a river bluff trying to fold out some K high hands. I think the idea is good, and you'll get enough folds to make it close to profitable, as long as you limit this line, and don't use all your hands as bluffs here. Effectively, what hand are you not bluffing here?
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04-05-2021 , 03:17 PM
#7
GTOJacob
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centurion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
T high/9 high/8 high all would be bluffed before this.

It could be okay as an exploit but bluffing turns with no equity hands (you don't even have a diamond to bluff diamond rivers) is not the best strategy.

CO should be cbetting range here but if he does have a X back range. His X back range is going to be hands with SDV most likely.

I do like your sizing though. Usually when it goes X/X OTF we want to use 2 sizing's OTT. A small sizing and an OB sizing.

What do you think your value range is OTT? It's not nearly that big when you use that sizing - definitely not big enough to include a random JTo in there.
Yeah I think you're right, bluffing JTo here is definitely too ambitious.

And I guess my turn value range is two pair +
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04-05-2021 , 04:11 PM
#8
aner0's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTOJacob
I hear this kind of thing a lot but I don't really understand why. I get that from a GTO perspective I want my betting range to be balanced on the average turn card so it makes sense to barrel some hands with draws and, subsequently, equity.

But if my value range is big enough so that my 'bluffing' range is already balanced but could do with a few more combos, aren't combos with the lowest equity and best card removal the next best choice?
This is not a good bluffing candidate because you have 0 outs to beat calls, don't block anything significant, and you are devaluating your own outs by making a J or T river not win you the pot
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04-05-2021 , 04:37 PM
#9
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i think people will fold enough on both streets to bluff just about anything
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04-06-2021 , 03:54 AM
#10
Ramius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
i think people will fold enough on both streets to bluff just about anything
Unless they know you overbluff and start checking nuts OTF and calling turn and riveroverbets with any pair
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04-06-2021 , 04:26 AM
#11
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g3orgeluc4s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
Unless they know you overbluff and start checking nuts OTF and calling turn and riveroverbets with any pair
not a real concern at 10NL
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04-06-2021 , 11:21 AM
#12
PROPOSITION_JOE
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adept
Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 889
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3orgeluc4s
not a real concern at 10NL
definitely not a concern. villains are not protecting their xb ranges nearly enough.
question - do we get to overbet river?
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