Lol optimal. Must optimise life. Do whatever you like. Do what you have fun doing. Then if it's a **** date you still had fun.

You guys spend too much time worrying about how to win over the girl when it's just about being yourself.

The point is drinks are more fun than coffee, so they are doing whatever they have fun doing. Very few people enjoy having a coffee more than having a few drinks as a social situation

FYP

Lazy,

You probably know this but hookah bars are solid alternatives to actual bars for girls <21.

Otty are you really that obtuse? Coffee dates are a lot more serious because of the fact is during the day and it comes across like more of an interview. Girls want to have fun, coffee doesnt = fun. And im not saying the aim of the first date should be to bang the girl, im saying if theres sexual tension it makes it more unlikely to. You also make it sound like its morally wrong to have sex on the first date, that sounds like a very teenage like attitude.

Almost everyone else has said coffee dates isnt optimal but you refuse to listen but what do we know hey.

If a girl is legit interested in you, it isnt going to matter where you go whether it be coffee or drinks or whatever. I have done both in the past with = success. People forget this so fast. Seems like so many people just want to rely on alcohol and hope the girl makes a poor decision. If you are trying to just bang a chick then yeah bar but if you are actually interested in her and are thinking of legit dating her semi long term, coffee date is going to be way more +EV and I dont see how it is even close

To me, grabbing drinks will usually be the optimal option. That being said, "not optimal" doesn't necessarily mean bad.

Compared to other non-drinking dates, coffee is a pretty decent option imo. For one it's very casual and chill and definitely doesn't give off a vibe like you are sweating her hella hard. Coffee in and of itself isn't "fun," but neither is dinner - you make it enjoyable by being a fun guy.

Yeah hookah is solid although I usually forget about it. There's some pretty good places here and are all open pretty late throughout the week

Hookah is great. I wouldnt even say its a solid alternative to girls under 21. Been there with plenty of people over 21 too and it is still a good time.

Do you have a twin brother that doesnt take his first dates for coffee by any chance ? How much I hate to say it, wsopmichael is right (or whoever he is repeating, at least if I read this thread correctly).

Alcohol has nothing to do with bad judgement, its about relaxing. We're not trying to date rape people here imo. Or do you think to yourself "yeah, lets drink alcohol so Ill do things I will regret!" just a hint, what your thinking is probably closer to what she is thinking as well. Maybe a coffee date is more +EV if you cant control yourself or totally lose it once you had a few drinks.

Wsopmichael who is it that you are always echoing? You are like the little brother on the playground repeating what he hears his older bro say all the time and getting time out for not knowing the context or when to apply it

WRT the coffee vs bar discussion, I knew we had the same talk recently so I went and found it (from February, around post #44250). Below is my exact post from the discussion...

You are missing the point though. If a girl is really interested in you, it isnt going to matter if you take her for coffee or a drink. If either of you need alcohol to relax on a date, that just may say something about the chemistry or expectations you had that is the problem.

Coffee dates arent near as bad as people make them out to be

You make it sound as if really interested is an on-off thing that is beyond your reach. Being somewhat nervous in the event of (first)dating isnt that weird and standard for most girls. What Im saying is that theres a level beyond 'really interested' that you might want to reach and there is an optimal 'way' of getting there (she will like/enjoy one thing more over the other).

Maybe. Ive been with the same girl for over the last 3 years now so maybe alot has changed in the last 3 years.

Otty preachin over here.
Got your back mate

The biggest reason imo that bar > coffee shop is the ability to escalate physically, which is pretty important.

I've never actually been inside a coffee shop but I imagine you'd sit across from each other at a table.

If you want to make sure a girl is not a cheater, not a whore, not a slut, will get along great with your parents, will not have unresolved issues, you have to go on 19 consecutive coffee dates. Otherwise she isnt the one.

Get the coke in.

Someone thats going to agree to 19 consecutive coffee dates definitely has unresolved issues.

lol @ the bolded. First of all being discussed is a first date (or at least early in the dating phase) - how are you supposed to know if the girl is dateable yet. Secondly, you should be acting similarly around a girl you want to bang that night and a girl you would be willing to date (at least initially) - unless you're a young guy seducing cougars or something. Coffee dates just are not good - even looking past the lack of alcohol. It's inherently a day date and more difficult to transition to something else. Pointing out that if the girl is super into you and you are awesome then coffee works is a silly argument.

The goal of a first date should be to have a great time and try and set up the best possible circumstances. You should not be choosing your venue thinking "oh I want to bang this girl" or "oh I want to date her". You should be acting the same regardless and anything else is just weird. Let things develop naturally.

scrolls post he dug up on this is very good on summarizing this. To anyone who goes on coffee first dates a lot I recommend switching to drinks for a couple months and see how that works out for you. Yeah, sitting in Starbucks for 4 hours is totally more awesome than getting to experience some unique cocktails in a bar/lounge you've never been to. Or getting a bottle of wine and some delicious food you've never tried. You can even include yourself in this - I'd much rather do either of the above activities than get coffee.

In fairness, maybe Otty is into hipsters.

Mullen killing it as usual with the advice

Isn't this thread student life? Aren't most students under the age of 21? If this is student life 21+ then that's great advice.

Grad school. Staying young forever