This is definitely a step in the right direction. Will have to see it in person to see if it’s enough.

As an amateur who knows I'm -EV at the WSOP (yet is still coming for the 4th consecutive year to donate in 4-5 events) I am a huge fan of flattening the payouts. I would think a lot of amateurs are turned off after making a semi deep run and only getting 1.5 their BI.

Making a generalization on limited event comparisons to actual event 2023 payouts it looks like the gradual pay increase from 15% to 10 % of the field has been eliminated and all are now 2X Buy in
They carve roughly 10% off of the winner payout and substantially less going downward. Will make after bubble play different and even more shovefest chaotic because there is zero reason to wait for a minor pay jump that's not going to happen until 1/3 of the in the money players are eliminated. As a rec player I'm all for it.

Yes I also welcome the change. But seems like it will not affect ME pay out !
Still min pay out is $15000

Yes, but in my understanding, limiting it to +5k in profit for a min cash (from 10k to 15k) in the ME, is to give the chance for folks like myself that come from a country (Canada) that have to pay 30% taxes on any profits 5k and above the BI, to not have to do so It does make a significant difference, as many Canadian players (and other players coming from nations taxed 30%) only go to play the Main Event.

I put together a spreadsheet comparing the numbers for Millionaire Maker 2023 vs 2024 payouts (assuming 10,000 entrants).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...d1xkUf17k/edit

Looks pretty good to me!

Denny's still has Grand Slam happy hour for breakfast early mornings, that is to say there are cheap options if you want to go super cheap, but with a more health conscious population they don't occupy prime real estate and are usually spread out and away from the major poker action. WSOP dealer hourly + down rate (paid via rake) is actually not the highest in Vegas during the summer (inside information from a few dealers I know) but they have more hours to be worked than the other casinos/series so people aren't cut early and can people pick up overtime etc.

is the one near the mgm still 24/7?

bahbah which week you going to wsop?



i said in other thread I thouhgt each tourney usually cashed 15-18% field but i was corrected in the other thread

Im from Europe and have to pay 30% tax for winnings over 5k$. If I play a 5k tournament and min cash for 10k do I have pay tax for 10k or can I deduct the 5k buyin?

I don’t know if they have different standards for non USA players .

Otherwise

If you win net $5k there is no tax withholding. Anything over $5 k has tax withholding.

Since I have never won anything big in the US yet I am wondering how it will work in the unlikely event if I do bink something. I am from Germany, we do not have to pay any taxes on poker winnings. How does it work for us? Will they just give me the money in chips, cash or wire the Winnings? Or is there still some withholding or tax deduction?

Be extremely careful following anything you read regarding taxes on 2+2 even from ME regarding taxes (and I'm a retired CPA LOL) REFER to the WSOP FAQ for very specific info https://www.wsop.com/2023/faq/

So much is situational dependent and withholding is NOT taxes per se just in effect just a deposit against a future due tax obligation.

As to pay out that is Normally done in cash but arrangements can be made to deposit to your TBIC account or check at a minimum. I'm unsure on wire transfer but I suspect that is possible certainly from a TBIC Account it was in prior years.

This doesn’t seem true to me, but I haven’t had an applicable win at the WSOP, so I don’t know if they do things differently. Like the other guy said, players should do their own DD if this important.

Withholding means they actually remove money from the win as estimated tax. And then you either get money back or owe more based on your complete tax basis when you file your annual tax return.

For non-U.S, I think they always withhold and then if the country the player is from has a tax treaty with the U.S., the player can go through a process to get that money back. That process could be fairly lengthy (1 year+).

In my experience, for US players, when you win $5001+ net, you get a w-2g form, but you get the choice to have money withheld or not. If it is not withheld, you are supposed to submit an estimated tax payment yourself in the quarter you win to avoid late fees and/or penalty. This can be done online for federal and, likely, state, and is fairly painless. But if you’ve never done it, make sure you keep the receipts for your tax return. I think 25% net win is typical for estimated tax for federal and your state, if it has income tax, may have a different amount. Estimated tax is due 6/17/24 and 9/16/24 for this and next quarter. So if your win is on 6/18/24, you have a couple extra months to make the estimated tax payment. So the only real reason not to have the money initially withheld is if you have something better to do with it between the date you win and the estimated tax due date.

There may be an amount above which they will not give you the choice to withold, but like I said, I have never had money withheld for a net win in the $5-10k range.

Akashenk- Your post is fundamentally accurate as I understand the law and procedures EXCEPT FOR Foreign players. "Foreign Residents of U.S. Tax Treaty Countries:Must provide an Individual Tax Identification Number. " If thevindividual has the number (and Ceasars has said they are attempting to be able to assist in that process) no federal withholding is required. Without that # the default is 30% of the payout. Which the individual may attempt to get refunded when applicable and as you have correctly stated can be a long process.

Everything with the IRS tax code is highly specific circumstance dependent. For any players that win or need exact advice there has always a tax specific vendor (firm name escapes me) every year I have played that might be able to assist you either free or for a fee dependent upon your need. Again I am a CPA but NOT NOT NOT a tax expert and I have spoken to their representatives out of curiosity in the past and they SEEMED competent.

I'm not telling you. You just want to make sure we are out there at the same time to increase your odds of playing with me because you know I am -EV. HINT: I am playing in smaller BI events.

Yes they do, each country is treated differently in the sense that certain have a tax treaty with the US (and thus there is no 30% withheld) and others no, like where I am from, Canada.

Exactly this. Which is why they made the Main Event, AKA the most important tournament of the summer, a 15k min cash, as to not go beyond this 5k profit threshold unless you ladder up some more, of course

Yes! Thanks for putting that together, it's great to see how things were tweaked through all of the payouts. Many of us were asking for exactly this kind of improvement. I'd like to have seen them go still a bit further, with a bit more taken from the top 9 spots and distributed to players finishing in the 1-5% range, but this is definitely an improvement. Thanks WSOP!

Regarding payouts and taxes, a couple observations:
- I cashed 17,500 in the ME last year, and I don't recall being given an option to have taxes withheld. Entirely possible I've forgotten it, as I would have elected to not have withholding anyway (we already make quarterly estimated payments), but I'm not sure it's an option.

- Somebody questioned how they could get their payout. The answer is any way you can imagine. I believe they offered cash, casino chips, a cashier's check, and wire transfer as options, and if you wanted you could mix and match (get some chips, some cash, and the remainder on a check). I know the couple in front of me in the payout line was talking about getting a thousand in chips to go play roulette with.

- It's really interesting that in the ME, making the first pay jump could be problematic for some foreign players. I suppose that adds to the frenzy of all-ins after the bubble bursts, as short-stacked foreigners are actually disincentivized to try to last to the first pay jump to 17.5k. That only took about 15 minutes last year!

Yup. As an example, my buddy (also Canadian) just got his return on the 30% withheld from the 2018 Main Event a few months ago, a good 6 years later, no less!!! He did cash for 50k though, not a mere 2.5k extra that would give one more thoughts about shoving light in a yolo go-big-or-go-home sort of move.

Okay since I am partially responsible for opening this Pandora's box Straight from the IRS website Instructions for forms W-2G https://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw2g

Withholding
You must withhold federal income tax from the winnings if the winnings minus the wager exceed $5,000 and the winnings are at least 300 times the wager. Withhold 24% of the proceeds (the winnings minus the wager). This is regular gambling withholding.

If the winner of reportable gambling winnings doesn't provide a TIN, you must backup withhold on any such winnings that aren't subject to regular gambling withholding. The backup withholding rate is identical to the regular withholding rate of 24%. That is, backup withholding of 24% applies if the winnings are at least $600 but not more than $5,000 and are at least 300 times the wager. Figure backup withholding on the amount of the winnings reduced, at the option of the payer, by the amount wagered.

My comment
Please note the word AND above also note this is for US taxpayers. The link also gives specific additional detail for Non Residents with and without a valid Tax ID. Normally a refund should NEVER take 5 years after filing for a refund. There must have been a significant delay in his filing and also lots of additional issues. Typically a refund should be completed well within 6 months tops.
That said NOTHING surprises me with the IRS.

If you are a U.S. citizen and cashed for net $7500, then the WSOP gave you a w2-g form to submit with your annual tax return. This would have listed the withholdings, if there were any. Again, I’m not certain if they withhold automatically, or don’t withhold automatically, or ask the player what they prefer. I just know in my experience in other venues, the player has the choice. It’s possible the WSOP has different policies, but they can’t get around giving the w-2g when applicable.

I asked for my vacation time in December.

I booked my Airbnb the day the schedule dropped in February.

I finished paying for my flight and my stay last month.

I’ve now reached the point where I’m counting down the number of days at work before my flight.

That number is currently 13, and I cannot POSSIBLY contain my enthusiasm!!

The classic boomer response. You all are scared of your own shadows. Everyone's out to get you! Ahhhh!! My parents are the same way. 71 and 79 and never traveled internationally. "It's too dangerous."

Live your life and be a man. Have some courage.

Payouts should drop down to 12.5% of the field. 15% is stupid and 10% is too low. If you look up the definition of compromise in the dictionary, you'll find this argument for 12.5% payouts in poker tournaments. Maybe not, but it should be.

Oh I definitely got the form, and they definitely didn't withhold. I just can't remember whether I was given the option or not. I know my local card room doesn't withhold when they have to do a W2G.