Depends how desperate I was and how much I liked her as a person. It's a pretty big strike when a woman is so unable to deal with what nature has given her that she'd get herself cut on to deceive potential partners about her genetic quality. The ethical situation is the same as a big nosed girl with a device to alter your mind to make you see a small nose. I mean, how far do you take this? Is it ok if a deformed person with heaps of genetic problems spends a couple million on plastic surgery to look like a 9, and gets hot guys as a result, who'd rather be doing true hotties? Is it ok if a slimy old dude gets himself cut on to look like he's 22 and hot, and starts banging willing young hotties? To me, there's something wrong and gross about that. But these are the very ethical situations we'll be facing in 10-20 years with plastic surgery. Where is the line?

I don't have a problem with people getting surgery to clean up things that would happen anyway - for example, someone who's worked in the sun or smoked all their life gets their skin tightened up to look like other people their age. Or a lardass getting some liposuction because she was fat when younger and can't get it off the ass now. None of those are really deceptions, just surgical assistance for doing something that could be done naturally anyway.

Lol. Sometimes I agree with Phil and sometimes I don't, but I thought this sentence was good. Actually, I'd modify it to say -

It's a pretty big strike when a woman is so unable to deal with what nature has given her that she'd put her life at risk just so she looks better in a swim suit.

That said, I do not think I'm better than anyone. I have pondered getting cosmetic surgery in the past and I recognize that I am a huge hypocrite.

Don't feel bad. If they had a way, via liposuction, to remove upwards of 70 pounds of excess fat and it was inexpensive enough, I would do it in a heartbeat. I am guessing they would need to use an industrial sized ShopVac or something for that job though.

How are you a hypocrite unless you actually got it?

And what's the deal with claiming not to be better than anyone? Girls are by far the most judgmental and status aware creatures on the planet.

okay okay I secretly think I'm better than other people. There, I said it. Are you happy?! God don't make me examine everything I say in these threads. I hate that.

I'm a hypocrite because I say that women are shallow and obsessive and vain and I scoff at them for it, but then I turn around and know full well that I too can be shallow, obsessive and vain (but perhaps a chicken) and I should really know better. But let's face it, at the end of our life it's all about how we look in the mirror, right?

The argument seems to be missing here. All you've done that I can see is gainsaid what has been said, not provided reasoning of your own as to why it makes sense to do so. The health risk issues have already been mentioned, and it's clear that going under the knife is more of one than putting on mascara.

You seemed to have picked things that at first glance appear confusingly arbitrary, but on further examination have to do with people's volition. Why am I less to "blame" or whatever for being born with a deviated septum, which is no fault of my own, than someone who has smoked all their life or let her fat ass get out of control, which is explicitly something that they have chosen? It seems here that you are willing to disapprove of the innocent but approve of the guilty.

He "disapproves" of the innocent who alter their bodies because they are misrepresenting themselves and presenting a false genetic face to unsuspecting men. Men who would otherwise never have considered marrying and reproducing with someone cursed with ugly god given misshapen boobs.

He approves of the guilty because they let their ass get big and now want to reduce it to a more normal size. As he said, they want to clean up their act. It's not a deception in the way the first case is. Hm. Or is it.

You crack me up katy.

I guess there's just a belief that a face expresses a large part of who you are. Surgically changing something that you've grown up with for at least 16 years just to be more desirable seems horribly shallow. Similarly with getting a boob job - you're getting chopped up and plastic put in your body to get more sexual attention from men. I mean, makeup is somewhat intended to do the same thing same thing, but it's the extreme you're going to that makes it different.

Fixing the problems caused by an excessive lifestyle doesn't seem to have the same deceptive value. Perhaps I'm wrong and haven't thought it through properly...it's just that one is really repulsive for some reason and the other isn't.

Interestingly, I have seen where makeup has changed a woman's look far more than a Boob Job. Actually I think this is likely true almost ALL the time. I mean come on, some women look really great and then they scrub off the makeup and it's like Bride of Frankenstein all over again.

hell, if i could take a pill to make me better-looking and have washboard abs, I'd do it. So I don't see why it's a big deal if someone wants a nosejob or bigger boobs.

With a little bit of time in the gym, you can take a pill to get washboard abs (far less gym time needed than without). And you don't need a pill to make you better looking, you just need a bigger bank account.

no, I want a pill to give me washboard abs while I eat Cheetoes and watch VH1 reality shows. Otherwise, what's the point?

In that case, I suggest you shave the outline of abs into your stomach hair, if you have enough. A buddy of mine did this and it was f'ing hilarious.

This does sound really effing funny. If I was hairy enough I would do it for sure.