So it's better just to say it as fact then!

Good thing it's their fault because they went outside without underwear phew.

Bonus points for the misogyny warnings coming from the one poster most likely to be accused of it in this thread by a mile.

Not sure what all that's about, but I think it's interesting that one might point out that it may be hard to find evidence of things that by their very nature don't lend themselves to being collected as evidence. It doesn't seem to be an observation that makes the point I think it is intended to.

I was being facetious and mostly joking. I basically just wanted to say what sockhead did but was beaten to it. Solo is obviously saying something he pulled out of his butt and at first glance what you said makes it seem that a lack of evidence somehow confirms his ideas.

Seems logical to me. Isn't it common for women to feel guilt afterwards? Shouldn't a man who was raised right believe it's not ok, no matter what?

What more do you want than anecdotal evidence? I know multiple cases that are quite similar to the ones depicted in this thread. What more do you want?

How is it not a big issue when people are getting unfairly accused of something that is going to significantly change their lives and change how people perceive them? It's not okay, and I think it's a pretty big deal.

I even know what point you're trying to make, nor do I know why sockhead linked me up with what is clearly an absurd post.

Police and court records. Even if it is hard to observe, it doesn't stand to reason that the data can't be teased out somehow.

This is an equivocation. I'm not claiming it isn't a big deal for individuals who are falsely accused. I'm claiming I haven't seen evidence that it is a big deal for society, in terms of frequency.

I quoted those two posts because one said it is a huge problem, and the other implied that it is more of a problem now than in the past, and I question the both of these claims.

I'm not some kind of dyed in the wool falsely-accused-of-rape denier; I'm just saying I haven't seen any convincing evidence that it is a huge or increasing problem.

I have trouble believing that other post was even remotely serious. Tying my post to it makes it look way sillier than it is. That said, I don't know what more to say. Maybe we're arguing definitions of huge problem. I mean, if we're talking on a societal level, I'm not sure how big of a problem rape is.

I remember in college hearing that something like 1 in 3 women will be sexually abused. They never once really talk about how that is measured or how often it's proven, etc. I have no idea.

I don't see how police records touch on more than a fraction of this issue.

rape ITT

I disagree that it's not as big as the rape issue. In fact, I think it's actually worse. I have this discussion with my wife now and then. I really think that being falsely accused of rape is at least as bad as an attempted rape and being falsely convicted of rape is at least as bad as actually being raped.

Of course, I'm told that as I guy I just don't get how bad being raped would be. But when I make this argument I don't mean to minimize rape -- it's clearly a horrible crime. But I think that if someone were to be falsely convicted for rape, that too would be a horrible crime. But for some reason society doesn't treat it as such.

A good example would be the accuser in the Duke Lacrosse case. Once her allegations were shown to be false, she was pretty much just left alone. However, if some guy attempted to rape her and failed (e.g., someone intervened and came to her rescue), you can bet that guy would still be in a world of trouble.

I'm not even sure what a good solution for this problem would be. If penalties for falsely accusing someone for rape were increased, surely some legitimate rapes may go unreported because the accuser might be afraid of reprecussions if she couldn't conclusively prove the allegation. And that wouldn't be a good thing either.

It's definitely an unbalanced and potentially extremely cruel and devastating solution our society has come to. A false accusation can destroy a life.

I remember reading a great piece in Esquire a decade ago about a man whose coworker accused him. He wound up committing suicide. She was simply a flake who was believed automatically.

Worse, to get federal funding or contracts, which is surprisingly important in all sorts of odd nooks and crannies in the economy, companies of a certain size have to match the statistical norms the federal government comes up with. That includes prosecuting X number of times per year for things like racial and sexual discrimination and harrassment. Prosecuting less can paint you as a bad player and make you ineligible for federal contracts. Therefore, employers are incentivized to prosecute accusations and deincentivized not to. Any random employee can be caught in the middle at any time, due to bad motives on the part of a fellow employee, a superior, or both. Our system has turned something with devastating repercussions into a bit of a crap shoot.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...er/8523103.stm

http://www.cbs42.com/content/localne...uKL-2vJ-w.cspx

http://www.sunherald.com/local/story/1906008.html

http://www.expressandstar.com/2010/0...er-rape-claim/

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Art...75729?UserKey=

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0fchH7Vvd

http://www.pendletoday.co.uk/nelsonn...and.6068637.jp

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/new...woman_in_jail/

http://www.ktiv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11834549

Here's a whole dump of links from just this year alone from a blog that documents instances of false rape in the news.

It all depends on ones definition of when it´s rape. Actually Blargs post here is a good guess as to why imo.

Personally I have not been raped, but sexually assaulted countless times (by its definition). Obv there is nothing you can really do about it as a guy without making things even worse for yourself, and then it would only be to punish the "assaultist" which doesnt make much sense to me. Also it´s far from as bad as being raped.

As always, my beloved alma mater is pissing everyone off. I totally randomly was on campus last weekend, happened to read this piece, and of course got in several arguments defending it. Obviously the author is ******ed, but I empathize.

http://gawker.com/5478307/princeton-...ape-allegation

I guess in some sense I see your point, but really, what am I supposed to get from that? I never denied that it happened. I also think it is terrible that people's lives are ruined because of it. I'm just not emotionally invested in this issue, and I'm not impressed by those stories. If this kind of crime rises to the level (or has risen to the level) that it demands more attention from legislators, law enforcement, or whoever, then I'm all for more attention on it.

I can find 9000 articles about people dying in drunk driving accidents. But that doesn't mean that drunk driving is 1000 times as problematic as false rape accusations. Because despite how you or I might feel about it, for many it is a very emotionally loaded subject, and that means it is all the more important to put the anecdotes aside and look for hard data.

There seems to be a misconception by some of what rape is. In the UK at least (and I'm pretty sure in the US too), it is simply not the case that being drunk means that one cannot give consent. Rape. like almost all other crimes, requires mens rea - the person accused has to have intended to rape. In situations where the woman is drunk, it will depend on how drunk she is. The test is whether a reasonable person in the position of the accused would have considered that the woman was giving consent or was incapable of doing so.

I'm not sure why your level of emotional disinvolvement is any more relevant, interesting, or indicative of anything than would be anyone else's interest and concern. I can go to any random clutch of goths and find people who can't be bothered. I'm just not sure what point it would make.

Because this is what you said:

I have demonstrated above that this is a much bigger problem than a few anecdotes that you don't seem to give any credibility to and a couple high profile news stories spread over the last couple years. If I can pull out a dozen news stories about false rape accusations from the last couple months alone with basically zero effort spent searching, that would suggest that the number of false rape accusations is within a factor of ten of the number of true rape accusations in the news in that same time frame. Considering the damning consequences of a rape accusation, even if the accused is later fully exonerated, even if the accuser recants and says she made the whole thing up, this is obviously a problem, no matter your personal disinterest in the matter.

Eh, this includes references to some of the few real sources of hard data that exist.

I agree. Rape is a serious trauma, it doesn't typically end lives. Allegations of rape can absolutely destroy a person's career, relationships, and whole life. It's hard to know how many false allegations go through to conviction, but many convictions are supported based on no greater evidence than his word against hers. Conviction means years in prison and likely alienation from friends and family, followed by a life of being unemployable and having to tell the neighbors that you're a sex offender.

Yup. I wonder how people are even coming up with statistics for percentages of rape claims that are false. Since an accusation need merely be believed, either in someone's social life at large or before a court, for a person to be considered or ruled guilty, how often do you really know if someone is not guilty? Therefore, how reliable are such statistics? It seems to me they are inherently on shaky ground.