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Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives Star Trek Thread: To Boldly Split Infinitives

01-16-2020 , 11:28 AM
The more Discovery I watch, the more I feel the writers' despair and how much they are falling back on special effects trying to make the show safe.

The show basically has no chance of shedding its mediocrity under the circumstances.

I actually think Lorga was starting to show signs of development as a character although it was also pretty clear the writers didn't know where to take the Lorga character.

Burnham's actress is getting better at her role and I feel like I do see a bit of her identity as a human raised in Vulcan society as season builds toward climax. But she's working with terrible writers in obvious turmoil WRT where to take the show. I strongly suspect Patrick Stewart had a lot to do with TNG's writing and direction as the show went on and that allowed Picard's character to develop a lot. Burnham's actress (what's her name?) apparently doesn't have the same talents/clout to make the same thing happen.

The best thing I could say about Discovery is how little it's interfering with the canon and how it's almost setting itself up to be purged from the canon as soon as it ends.
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01-16-2020 , 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizy

The best thing I could say about Discovery is how little it's interfering with the canon and how it's almost setting itself up to be purged from the canon as soon as it ends.
The bolded has to happen. In TOS "Mirror Mirror", the Enterprise crew and Spock in particular, initially have zero clue that the mirror universe exists, yet in STD, Starfleet is aware of its existence.
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01-16-2020 , 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh
The bolded has to happen. In TOS "Mirror Mirror", the Enterprise crew and Spock in particular, initially have zero clue that the mirror universe exists, yet in STD, Starfleet is aware of its existence.
Also gotta love how Boreth went from the the location of the prophetic return of Kahless to a top secret time crystal mine.

Really get the feeling the writers didn't care for keeping things silky smooth with established canon.
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01-16-2020 , 05:26 PM
Some of the Discovery episodes suggest to me the writers just don't know established canon.
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01-23-2020 , 07:41 PM
Anyone see Picard yet? Early reviews are mixed to good.

Guinan is planned to appear in season 2.
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01-23-2020 , 09:49 PM
I'd be interested in non-spoiler reviews.
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01-23-2020 , 10:13 PM
The very first scene (sorry for spoiling but it's literally first 10 seconds before even opening theme song) is Picard playing poker with Data, calling back to how TNG ended.

Fan service all over episode 1, connecting TNG fans to the past and still establishing Picard as its own storyline with very strong character development of the "Picard" Picard.

I suggest reading the prelude comics before watching. Not strictly necessary but helpful.

Fingers crossed. But the series is starting off strong IMO.
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01-24-2020 , 03:45 PM
I thought overall it was a decent start, that at least kept me interested/engaged.

Main plus was obviously Stewart, who was the literal duck tape that somehow kept a bloated plot from spilling everywhere.

Spoiler:
The sheer number of threads in the pilot was my main issue. So we have the girl who is the key to everything until she gets blown up before we even care who she is but then guess what she has a sister and guess what she's data's daughter, then we have the Romulan/Borg plot, the malfunctioning synthetics plot, the Bruce Maddox plot, the isolationist Starfleet plot did I miss anything?

This is all revealed in 40 mins.

I mean, why not kill data's daughter after 4-5 episodes when people might actually care or be shocked? Why not sit on the reveal that's she's data's daughter for longer than 10 mins?


Despite the bloating some of these ideas do have potential, so fingers crossed.
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01-25-2020 , 08:29 PM
YouTube video on Easter Eggs in episode 1. Lots of spoilers.

Spoiler:


Proud to say the only one I missed is the episode where Data started painting/dreaming.

My guess on why Dahj got offed so quickly is they were slamming the show with special effects and fight scenes and someone, Stewart himself possibly, decided to just purge all the unnecessary pyrotechnics and we're left with this episode 1 that sets up a huge number of subplots all tied to a single thread: Picard's journey to... whatever.
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01-27-2020 , 06:23 PM
Only 15 minutes into the first episode so far and paused to say Patrick Stewart is still amazing, probably better now than ever.

I love the reason they've concocted for him leaving Starfleet. Fits perfectly with his character.
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01-27-2020 , 07:03 PM
Stewart is just incredible.

I was quite surprised with how internal the first episode of the new show was....it's quite tragic and interesting....even while sticking to the conventions of a Star Trek show.

And it's fascinating that "Picard" is in the same universe as the rebooted Star Trek franchise - because Romulus has been destroyed, just like in the first movie of the reboot. I bet there must've been some discussion over whether they should ignore the reboot or include it in the canon.
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01-27-2020 , 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
I thought overall it was a decent start, that at least kept me interested/engaged.

Main plus was obviously Stewart, who was the literal duck tape that somehow kept a bloated plot from spilling everywhere.

Spoiler:
The sheer number of threads in the pilot was my main issue. So we have the girl who is the key to everything until she gets blown up before we even care who she is but then guess what she has a sister and guess what she's data's daughter, then we have the Romulan/Borg plot, the malfunctioning synthetics plot, the Bruce Maddox plot, the isolationist Starfleet plot did I miss anything?

This is all revealed in 40 mins.

I mean, why not kill data's daughter after 4-5 episodes when people might actually care or be shocked? Why not sit on the reveal that's she's data's daughter for longer than 10 mins?


Despite the bloating some of these ideas do have potential, so fingers crossed.
I could be way off obviously since I'm just spitballing, but I don't think there's that many plot lines here:

Spoiler:
Quote:
So we have the girl who is the key to everything until she gets blown up before we even care who she is but then guess what she has a sister and guess what she's data's daughter,
This seems pretty straightforward. For some reason, androids "have to be build in pairs" (whatever, it's their world, they make the rules), so Dahj is basically just a piece of mail that Picard gets saying "Hey, there's an adventure out here". He sister is the real character, she's just a MacGuffin of sorts. The reveal that she's connected to Data isn't meant to be a twist really, just a continuation of episodes like "The Offspring" as Data was always trying to replicate himself.


Quote:
then we have the Romulan/Borg plot,
This was referenced (and then cut) from the 2009 reboot. Nero's mining ship was supposed to use Borg tech for its refit, but it's only mentioned in a deleted scene I think. It seems like they're introducing it here to give Picard and his group a "fort knox" to have to break into to save Data's remaining daughter. Not sure it's going to be more than that, but Hugh is coming back, so who knows.

Quote:
the malfunctioning synthetics plot,
Again, this just seems like world building. It helps explain why Picard resigned and then also explains why there's a group trying to kill Data's daughters: they're Romulans with a grudge.

Quote:
the Bruce Maddox plot,
Seems pretty clear they're setting him up to be either the leader of the Romulan "kill all androids" group or the guy who's going to unlock the science of Data's work later in the season. I haven't seen the actor from "Measure of a Man" cast, but I can't imagine they plant those seeds and don't pay them off.

Quote:
the isolationist Starfleet plot
Yeah, that seems a little clunky to me too, but I wrote it off as more world building.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic
Stewart is just incredible.

I was quite surprised with how internal the first episode of the new show was....it's quite tragic and interesting....even while sticking to the conventions of a Star Trek show.

And it's fascinating that "Picard" is in the same universe as the rebooted Star Trek franchise - because Romulus has been destroyed, just like in the first movie of the reboot. I bet there must've been some discussion over whether they should ignore the reboot or include it in the canon.
Well Akshully, you're referring to two separate time lines. The destruction of Romulus happened in the "Prime" timeline as well as the "Kelvin" timeline. The "split" happened when Spock got sucked into the black hole. The Prime timeline kept moving along, now without Spock and his "Fix Romulus" machine, so the star blows up and Romulus is nuked.

TLR-Picard takes place in the Prime timeline, not the Chris Pine/Kelvin timeline.
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01-27-2020 , 08:39 PM
Romulus was destroyed and Spock and Eric Bana and his group of Romulans all got sucked into a black hole. That's the stuff that took place in the prime timeline. Everything else from that movie was in the Kelvin timeline (the destruction of Vulcan, Cumberbach as Khan, etc.).
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01-28-2020 , 02:02 AM
Star Trek: Nemesis took place on stardate 2379 and Romulus was destroyed 2387, so as far as Picard goes Kelvin and Prime are effectively the same timeline - Kelvin and Prime they only differ from a storytelling POV pre-2387.
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01-28-2020 , 07:06 AM
Actually, you're all a little off. It all has to do with licensing rights and the "alternate" Star Trek license that the current shows are operating under. You may be interested to learn that even the "Prime" timeline is not canon because it comes from JJ's 2009 reboot of Star Trek which also was produced under the alternate license. That license states that anything produced under that license has to be at least 25% different from all of the pre-2005 shows and movies. That's one reason that JJ's Star Trek destroyed Romulus.

There are some excellent YouTube videos that go into great detail about how the licenses work and why the Prime timeline under the alternate license has to differ from canon.
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01-28-2020 , 09:05 PM
I haven't seen Picard but I assume they are using the destruction of Romulus in it from the Prime timeline? How could they do that if they don't legally have the rights to that timeline? Or they just decided to have the same thing happen in the regular timeline?
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01-28-2020 , 10:08 PM
why's it called Kelvin?
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01-28-2020 , 11:53 PM
At the beginning of the movie, Nero's ship comes back in time and destroys the ship that Kirk's father is on. That ship is the USS Kelvin.

source: I googled "kelvin timeline why kelvin"
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01-30-2020 , 07:53 PM


The first episode is on youtube for free. It's pretty good and despite what they were saying about it not being a TNG sequel, it feels exactly like a TNG sequel. It's also a bit of a Blade Runner ripoff as part of the plot is literally the same as the backstory to Blade Runner.
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01-30-2020 , 10:20 PM
Spoiler:

Episode 2 showed why they had to reshoot. The actors for the villainous Romulans are absolutely atrocious that seem to have difficulties delivering their lines with straight faces.

I can live with it. The story is taking shape and Picard is Picard. This is undoubtedly TNG continued. Passing of the batons to the 3rd generation. About frigging time.

The ever so familiar troupe of villainous/incompetent admirals has already made an appearance. That sure felt familiar.
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01-31-2020 , 01:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd


The first episode is on youtube for free. It's pretty good and despite what they were saying about it not being a TNG sequel, it feels exactly like a TNG sequel. It's also a bit of a Blade Runner ripoff as part of the plot is literally the same as the backstory to Blade Runner.
Came to post this

It's only there for a limited time though so watch while you can
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01-31-2020 , 03:14 AM
Made the mistake of watching some reviews on Youtube. Even people whose opinions I'd usually trust have some incredibly inane complaints about this show. I'm really enjoying it through 2 eps. so far.

Minor issues aside, I hope it holds this course through the season. I know we aren't going to get slow paced morality plays any more and I've made peace with that, but if we can get more espionage and fewer shootouts that's cool with me.
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01-31-2020 , 03:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT
Made the mistake of watching some reviews on Youtube. Even people whose opinions I'd usually trust have some incredibly inane complaints about this show. I'm really enjoying it through 2 eps. so far.

Minor issues aside, I hope it holds this course through the season. I know we aren't going to get slow paced morality plays any more and I've made peace with that, but if we can get more espionage and fewer shootouts that's cool with me.
+1 hallway through the pilot and I've accepted this isn't going to be the Picard i used to know

Absolute dagger into the heart starting off with that fan service making me think this is going to be epic only to have the next scene with ninjas Bourne identity cliches and throwing daggers...

Still enjoying it and going to watch the rest through think and thin but have the same aspirations as you for the show
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01-31-2020 , 06:15 AM
Wow, finished both episodes

Very gritty, they curse and drop f bombs

It's like the people being the Battlestar Galactica reboot put some Star Trek characters in the BG universe
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02-01-2020 , 01:23 AM
I WASN'T disappointed in the ep1 of Picard... I enjoyed see all my OLD friends, but a weak Picard is a little depressing.

Can we get rid of the Kung Fu please... Jesus Christ hollywod.
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