Exactly. And even if they are raised with ideas of these things, they don't necessarily jive with our own. How many times have we started a discussion here only to stop half-way as we realize we don't have any idea what the other person is talking about? People often don't even share the same definitions for common words, let alone the same concepts for application.

And still others are only as truthful with others as they are honest with themselves, so the whole thing ends up becoming a big pile of BS that most see through but that person may never realize exists.

Yup.

I do lie to the crack addicts and see nothing wrong with it. "No, I can not spare my last $20 so you can buy some gas. I was going to use it to buy myself some blow. You understand, right?"

No, it would be dumb to think everyone is going to be honest, and naive to expect it in every situation. But I do expect some honesty from a first date, a business associate, and my friends. I don't expect or demand honesty from anyone else. Say an employer, a stranger I couldn't care less about, or anyone else I don't want in my social circle. I do feel honesty is paramount, and I always give it out, because I believe I should treat those as I want to be treated, not because I expect that treatment. I do feel you should surround yourself with those who have qualities you respect. And I don't respect liars.

Then it looks like we agree and are only at an impasse from a limitation of the language.

Very standard even among the nicer sort of people. Where it really gets interesting is when the attempt to talk runs face first into the wall of someone's limited willingness or ability to think and speak truthfully about himself or his limitations. (Many people seem to really hate and dread being seen as having natural limitations, no matter how expectable and run-of-the-mill.) Then you are asked to take a step into the twilight zone to join him there so the conversation can continue. I can rarely do it. It's hard enough for me to agree when a guy pronounces his non-existent kindness or infallibility, or laugh along if a guy pulls a dick move or espouses an unkind prejudice and wants to play it off like it's nothing, that I tend to find a way to remember a previous appointment, or walk away and stop talking to him, or find myself too busy or distracted the next time we cross paths.

I can do a lot for someone, but he gets to keep his own delusions. I really don't want to come along for the ride and don't believe I owe that to anyone.

Come now, Blarg. I expected more from you

A person of high standards has to expect that virtue will often be its own reward.

Barring that natual expression of villany which we all have, the man looked honest enough. -Mark Twain

The only difference that I know of between a silent lie and a spoken one is, that the silent lie is a less respectable one than the other. And it can deceive, whereas the other can't - as a rule. (from Following the Equator, by Mark Twain)

The universal conspiracy of the silent-assertion lie is hard at work always and everywhere, and always in the interest of a stupidity or a sham, never in the interest of a thing fine or respectable. (From My First Lie, and How I Got Out of It, by Mark Twain)

A wise man does not waste so good a commodity as lying for naught. -Mark Twain.


Silence is the loudest lie of all. -Tacitus Thucydides Polybius (151 B.C)

-Zeno

A blast from the past:

Well said.

Every time someone starts acting like a douche and then defends themselves by saying, "I'm just being honest," or, "I'm just telling you how I feel," I hear the robot from Lost in Space: "Danger! Danger! Danger!" First of all, it's often not what you say but how you say it. Second, to your point, it's worth considering what the benefit is to speak about it at all. On one hand I do think men are often urged too far in this direction, bottling up their feelings for the greater good and causing more problems than they are solving, but I also think it's a point of maturity to use some discretion when expressing yourself. That may mean saying nothing at all.