Definitely called upon law and order to answer an MBE question - couldn't remember if you are entitled to an attorney at a lineup, didn't remember seeing that on law and order, answered no.

More generally, the whole thing is such a joke. First of all, having people spend like $3k to be able to enter a profession where most will make like $40k if anything is just plain stupid.

As for the exam, its like they go out of their way to test **** that no actual lawyer will ever have to deal with. There were no less than 15 questions about not recording deeds and unsecured mortgages and similar bull****. Come the **** on, this **** never happens and when it does there are like 3 lawyers in each state that know what to do.

Similarly, testing such a wide range of topics is so dumb and pointless. Like 95% or more of lawyers will never deal with a commercial paper or secured transactions issue. It's just so ****ing dumb to make people learn the rules when they're just going to refer their clients to a specialist.

Finally, the character and fitness thing is so ****ing stupid. I mean it was no problem for me, but can we stop pretending this is some special, noble profession only fit for those of high character? Uh, look around morons. Lawyers have huge alcoholism rates and are viewed by the public about as well as congress.

anything else?

I must admit I'm curious as to why you were taking the bar.

i start business school in like 2 weeks. i had some free time, why not.

Best of luck and congrats to everyone that just had to go through it....I will be in the same spot a year from now...

I agree with Riverman's sentiments that testing people on everything is a bit ridiculous, but prolly necessary, as I plan to do patent pros., but if I just wanted to do that I'd be a patent agent...

Cheers to all either way...this thread has been invaluable to me

the bar is an absolute waste of time and just acts as a glorified hazing ritual in pursuit of monopolistic practices to keep it difficult to come in and compete with that state's lawyers

it doesnt actually serve as any sort of legitimate competency test

that said bits and pieces of day 1 are coming back to me from when i was in my delirium and im pretty sure i ****ing failed. if i have to retake this in feb because i ****ing got sick im going to be so mad.

I must admit, if Karak passed and I failed, I may just have to quit 2p2 out of the pure shame of it all.

This is pretty entertaining to read, albeit not all that helpful since I've forgotten what many of the answers were that I settled on.

I do enjoy that ATL got word of the ****ing bat that flew within half a foot of my leg two days ago: http://abovethelaw.com/2012/07/congr...ross-the-land/

I had to stop reading that thread, too many ones I got wrong.

It might be better if we followed Med school model and had a few standard exams that are broken into individual areas. Actually everyone was being so nice at the exam site that I wished the Court would order all lawyers to do it every couple of years.

After reading about that essay and bar bri I'm writing one ****ing nasty letter if I fail. I'm at a disadvantage in Virginia if I didn't get extorted by barbri?

I won't actually write a letter obv

Hey guys I was wondering if anyone can make suggestions on which LSAT prep course is best to take, Kaplan, Princeton Review, etc. etc. Let me know what your suggestions are and why. Getting outsourced at my job and they offer $3000 in transitional education reimbursement that I can used to take an LSAT prep course. I'm in NYC if that matters. Thanks very much.

Heh, me too. But it was downtown Chicago, so no one drove to the site, but the divide was the same with people who dressed like they had time to look respectable and were composed versus people who threw just anything on and were strung out.

eta: Virginia has a business-attire requirement which is ****ed up.

I kiiiiind of agree with this. Lawyers end up with a ton of responsibility, and they control a lot of important stuff that's easy to abuse (making decisions on others' behalf, trust accounts, handling sensitive information). People with a history of horrible decisions, criminals whose crimes might give insight into how much responsibility they can handle, etc., should have their backgrounds scrutinized before given authority to do what lawyers can do.

OTOH, the way state bars do background checks is stupid. Minor foibles can keep a person from being certified fit. My first time around, an ancient $300 disputed debt delayed things, and it got to the point where I wrote my analyst a letter basically saying, "Listen, I don't think I owe this, I've sent you documentation, etc. But I will just pay the money to get this over with. I don't think it's right that I'm in the position where I feel forced to pay money I don't owe, but becoming an attorney means more to me than the $300." By that point I'd sent her emails between me and the collection agency, copies of letters to the credit reporting agencies saying I disputed the debt, and copies of documents I got from the creditor. The next letter from her was the letter saying she would recommend me for certification. I was relieved but I was pissed that after all the money I spent on school, three years of my life, and a lifetime of good decisions, a $300 disputed debt from five years before was what my certification hinged on.

This past February I took another bar exam. I'd been an attorney for three years and I'm a federal law clerk, and I've had no bar complaints, but I could not be certified fit unless I sent copies of speeding tickets. My driver history report from the state was not sufficient. Actual ****ing copies of tickets. I'm already an attorney. If you want to see if I'd make a responsible attorney, look at my record as an attorney.

So yeah, the character/fitness thing can be a good tool if they didn't dive into irrelevant ****, but they want to know everything you've ever done that could be construed as bad behavior and they want documentation of it, and they've got brainless drones who don't use judgment looking over your info.

It was a strong threat while it lasted.

Yeah, where do you go to get letters about old tickets? I recall a few from 6 to 10 years ago but the driving reports are all blank and no one on the phone seems to know who can tell the bar that you don't have an unpaid ticket?

In my state, all I had to do about old tickets was to document communication between myself and the record-keepers and say that they were too old to still be on my record. It was fine.

Look at Velocity LSAT. If I recall correctly the guy took the LSAT three or so times and got a 180 atleast three times.

Some unsolicited advice for the recent bar takers.

If you have a job, take time to identify the rainmakers at your firm and learn as much as you can about the business of being a lawyer. You are not there to earn a paycheck - your goal is to build a career. If you show an interest in business development and are willing to do the grunt work for the rainmakers - research for articles or presentations, take cracks at blog entries and promotional materials, the partners will notice. It is simply essential for you to learn the business side. I just watched my old firm implode because the partners, who are great lawyers, were total failures in that department.

If you don't have a job, don't despair. Your situation is the norm. Spend the time between now and bar results keeping up your connections, getting whatever experience you can, and letting everyone you come into contact with that you are excited to start your career. Be positive and expect to find an associate position in 2013, if not the end of the year. Search this thread for AC Shark's posts on building a legal career - I have friends who essentially did what he suggests, and they have had great results, even though they graduated from T4's in 2010.

I've got my foot in the door in the public sector, working for the Attorney General office here in my state. Unfortunately all of us law clerks who were thinking/hoping we'd be brought back full-time after the bar were notified that we would only be getting paid part-time. I'm in good standing here and it's pretty obvious that if I hang on long enough that I'll move up from law clerk to deputy attorney general in due time, but for now it's just a matter of weathering the storm since I really can't afford to live on the hours I'll be getting. The limitations of the public sector being what they are, I need some luck with turnover in the office to get me to the full-time position in a reasonable period of time.

It is a great place to work, so hopefully things work out.

I'm in a good spot right now, but everyone in DC is bracing for the chaos that is the elections. They could turn everything upside down for me.

If you simply cannot find anything, you'll just have to say that and hope they don't make you prove a negative. You're supposed to disclose any prior professional licenses, and I used to treat lawns, which you need a pesticide license for, but it was a while ago, and the state didn't have a record of it. So I disclosed a license I had that I couldn't prove. I ended up giving my analyst the number of the person who keeps those records and suggested she call.

So that's one way. Call the city you got the ticket in. Ask them to fax a copy of the ticket and the record saying it's been paid. If they don't keep records that long, get the name of the records custodian or whoever ask if it's okay to give the contact info to the analyst if the analyst wants to confirm.

I think they train the application analysts to assume the applicant is a liar, even if it makes no sense to lie. Over-scrutinizing trifling things they couldn't possibly discover without me telling them, then requiring documentation, or requiring documentation of there being no documentation. They tell you to always err on the side of disclosure then make you wish like hell you hadn't.

So I tried googling what the pass rate on the Ohio Bar Exam was for July 2011 and can't seem to find it broken down by each individual school. It was 92% from Cleveland State for the February 2012 one and my opinion was if you prep for 50 hours a week for 2.5 months leading up to the exam and fail it then you shouldn't be practicing law and are most likely mildly ******ed. Some douche went all crazy on me saying the pass rate is only like 80% or something. Need to confirm this.

http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/Att...1jul/11jul.pdf