All this imo only shows that the only "advantage" the death penalty has over lifelong imprisonment is revenge and serving peoples emotional need for the most severe punishment possible. Looking at your post, it's not deterrence and it's not monetary reasons, but revenge. We'll never agree on this, but for me, this is not worth the risk that every now and then someone completely innocent will get killed.
We might agree that this guy "deserved" to die (though I can't help myself thinking "who am I to judge this?"), however this is where the problems start in my opinion. Who should have the power over other peoples life? Which crimes should be punished with the death penalty? How many innocents are we prepared to sacrifice, 1 every 10? 1:100? 1:1000? How can the system be optimized to keep the number of innocents killed as small as possible? How can we make sure that every accused gets the same chance to defend himself (this is obv a problem in any trial, but it's the most important when the court decides over life or death of someone.)?

I've always been against the death penalty, but reading this thread I really tried understanding why some people support it. But emotional and monetary reasons aren't gonna change my mind, imo the law system should be free of emotions (at least in this context).

2/3's of the way down the page is religious v. secular.


http://pewresearch.org/pubs/523/capi...rican-majority

You might be pleased to know that my position on gay marriage is now officially 'meh, life's too short' with a healthy dose of 'lol at gay divorce'.

Not recommended as a way of settling anything but simply as an interesting take on the shift from the law as exemplified as a representation of the king to the modern penal system. You're right about Foucault's general aim, but he also shows how the prsion system is representative of other state systems in terms of control and discipline. Foucault is much more an analyst than a advocate. I think it's his best book.

Probably been said already, but I'm only against the death penalty because I have zero faith in the government to "get it right." I also do not agree with any government as far as what constitutes a crime worthy of that penalty. So, in principle I'm not against killing people. I'm against governments killing people because they're an awesome combination of evil and incompetent.

cool. this does please me I can now check you off my list! One down and 150 million people to go.

Well, to be fair, Katy, if there had been no capital punishment, we Bible thumpers would have no rally-around dude...
The tide is turning, though. More and more are becoming disenchanted with the death penalty. Evangelical icon (and all purpose Watergate tool) Chuck Colson, for instance, has long championed the abolishment of the death penalty.

Actually, I was against the death penalty before I embraced my "silly Jesusism", for reasons listed in this thread. But Christianity's core message of grace and forgiveness hews quite nicely. As well as the sanctity of human life, the concept that all souls (and this does not necessarily have to be in a supernatural or "religious" context) are redeemable.

Yeah, well, that's pretty goddamn insulting, don't you think?

I certainly don't consider those who disagree with me to be either fools, nor naive, and, frankly, thought higher of you than to resort to such name calling in lieu of a reasoned defense of your position.

It might be an ******* thing to say, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than using mental handicaps as an excuse. If anything, they would make the person more of a danger.

I will only believe this because I'm guessing that you know far more atheists than christians, thereby making it true by default.

I wouldn't argue this. It is emotional. It is also, in this case, justice. Is it revenge? I don't know. It is the vengeance of the state, I think.

I wouldn't argue with the position that government ****s things up very often. I was lucky that this case was a slam dunk and has sailed through every appeal hearing it got.

That, by the way, is why there is an appellate system in place. If you get a bunch of crazed bigoted bloodthirsty idiots with a similar judge and prosecutor on a case, there are several reviews of the case and the decisions that were made before sentence is carried out.

The state asks for death and puts it to a jury, which is made up of people who sit through days of testimony and evidence so gruesome it made the judge cry. Yes it's emotional. In this case, also justified. I have no problem standing before Whomever with this on my head.

This ******* will render his life unto Caesar. Let the Almighty Spaghetti Monster Architect of the Universe Whatever You Believe In deal with his soul.

If someone is using a mental handicap as an excuse, that would indicate a rational mind at work. Someone with a mental handicap does not use it as an "excuse."

I would think the rational mind would be that of a defense lawyer.

Sucks, but lifetime confinement of the mentally disabled who are capable of harm to others is another must.

You're right. I do know more people who are atheists - conservatives who support the death penalty. The majority of Christians that I know are Methodists and Presbyterians and they are anti death penalty. I don't know very many Catholics and only one Baptist and one Mormon.

I would hate to be that istewart guy. He must be the most miserable person on the planet. It must be hard to be that special with all of us mere mortals on the planet. I can't even guess why he comes here.

He must be a shut-in or some kind of recluse. I hope he seeks help.

being robbed for 2.5 euro and seeing your avatar makes me never wanna go to Romania

Katy,

I know of slew of Catholics and was raised as one. In fact, RI is full of Catholics. Many Catholics in this part of the country tend to be conservative in their personal lives yet pretty liberal on social issues. I've yet to meet an atheist who supports the death penalty. Of course, I don't run into many atheists.

Hi there!

Hi Db!

For the record, I am by no means a Bible Thumper

I can assure you that the Catholic religion does not support the death Penalty.

I am really glad I just did a quick hit and run on this thing at the beginning.

I'm thinking that you've run into at least 5 atheists who support the dp right here in this thread. I would love to take a poll in OOT and find out how many are atheists and how many support the death penalty. I will guess that 70% of OOT are atheist, and of those 70% at least half support the dp.

Pro death penalty Athiest here.

a good pole would be:

[ ] pro-death penalty, religious
[ ] pro-death penalty, agnostic/athiest
[ ] anti-death penalty, religious
[ ] anti-death penalty, agnostic/athiest


you should ask killa imo. I never go in oot (do any of us?), so I have no line on whether it's the right place or not. He'd tell.

What about people who are neither religious or agnostic/atheist?

maybe i should just do it in the Lounge? I'm too chicken to start a thread in oot. I've never started one in there in my life. No doubt dids will come in there and say it's the dumbest thread he's ever seen in his life like he did to me that one time

Don't post a politard thread in OOT.

Polling 2p2 is a terrible way to get info on this. Your sample size is going to be at most a few hundred people, and the total number of theists is going to be too small for their opinions to even be worth making wild assumptions about. If you really want numbers on the religion/death penalty connection, just google around. I'm sure there's some out there.