The Swimmer is one of the most powerful and profound stories ever written. Great writers like Cheever can transcend the narrowness of their subject matter.

Ann Beattie doesn't deserve to be mentioned with the likes of Updike and Cheever.

[QUOTE=kioshk;13765853]The Swimmer is one of the most powerful and profound stories ever written. Great writers like Cheever can transcend the narrowness of their subject matter.

The Swimmer was made into a very compelling movie with the usual, brilliantly understated performance by Burt Lancaster.

Many galaxies ago, Hollywood used to tap into the remnants of literature on a regular basis. <sigh>

I didn't read that thread, but I would wager that the underlying reason was that a lot of people rightly perceive Gaiman as a fantastic author and American Gods was eleventy-million pages long. So awesome author plus many many pages = overload of awesomeness.

I concur with your opinion of American Gods. But I did thoroughly enjoy his The Graveyard Book, even though it's for kids.

I read the original trilogy years ago but still remember it, and I think it is a good work of science fiction. He added, I think, two more books in the series later on which were equally good. If you enjoy science fiction, I don't think you can go wrong reading the entire series.

-Zeno

On the strength of this review I bought this the other day adn just finished reading it. I liked it more than you did. In fact I thought it was really good, would give an unqualified thumbs up. Agree that its definitely "not Harry Potter," and in reality its not even really a sci-fi/fantasy book at all. Its much more in the vein of like a Bret Easton Ellis than a JK Rowling. The fantasy elements are all just superficial, they are props, not really relevant to the main story. The story is about magic and elves in the same way that Fight Club is about fighting and explosions. I thought it was hilarious, and engaging. Never read anything by Grossman before but I will now, its tight and clever writing. He wasnt able to entirely keep away from your basic coming-of-age cliches but he kept it to a minimum.

Really good book imo.

See, I don't know if I can give it an unqualified thumbs up because of the last "book" in the book. To enjoy that part I almost feel like you need to be aware that Grossman is turning a lot of fantasy cliches on their heads, or be very forgiving when it comes to fantastical settings. I completely and wholeheartedly agree that this book is not about magic. I would say it's far more about how young people grind their lives away working towards a perceived goal and then finding that once completed the goal was, well, like finding the "wishing beast" from the book.

But the last book....I don't know. I just didn't find it to be nearly as engaging as the rest of the story. I didn't even have a problem with the ending(or the final state of mind of the main character). It's just that I thought the last book was a little too cute in its delivery...possibly alienating a good bit of its potential audience. Could be that I am just overthinking it, though, since I personally didn't mind it per se. It's just that when I read it I felt like a lot of other people wouldn't get it or something. In general, though, I am oddly self conscience about my scifi/fantasy proclivities..and I could be underestimating that amount of people who would enjoy the last section for what I believe it is...gentle fun poking at the fantasy genre. Or they might just enjoy it at face value. What do I know.

James

EDIT: so I guess my question is this: if you met someone and they had just read, say, Lord of the Rings, but no other fantasy literature...would you recommend them this book? Because I am not sure I would. But I loved it. Am I just being too egotistical because I think I 'got' it but that many people wouldn't?

True. And I love long books that I love. I am definitely the type who doesn't want a book to end if I am super into it.

This was my first exposure to Gaiman though. I am going to read Stardust and Neverwhere next and I am anticipating enjoying these a lot more.

I think thats a good point. He does use the fantasy cliches as a device in order to get his point across. I dont think it would be absolutely essential to have a modest background in fantasy in order to follow along but it probably does add to it.

I will also add, on an unrelated note, that without doing any sort of background, that either Grossman or his parents must have gone to medical school for at least some period of time. There were probably five or ten word choices or references scattered throughout the book that were specifically medically related (in the sense of shorthand or terms that doctos use) and there were several themes that rung very true for the med school experience.

Very possible that this book is a comment on the medical profession to some degree. Learning all the minutiae and ins and outs...working your ass off forever...and then a lot of people wind up saying, Man, what was all that work for?

I am talking about the general perception of unhappy high powered doctor types. I have absolutely no personal experience in that area.

I am always surprised when I see words I have never seen before in a book. I had never come across the word "insouciant" before The Magicians. Is it in any way a medical term? would love to know which terms/words you are talking about.

James

Just got "The Best of Beaumont" short story collection. I had it when it first came out in the 80's and loved it. Charles Beaumont wrote a lot of the very best of the characteristic Twilight Zone episodes way back in the day, so you probably know him even if you think you don't. I think he did the episodes, "Dead Man's Shoes" and the one where the beautiful girl has surgery to turn her as ugly as everyone else, for example. He used to be well known for that, some of his movie screenplays, and his short stories, but he died more than 40 years ago, and new generations tend not to get introduced to genre short story writers. What a shame; they're really missing out. I'm greatly looking forward to reading this one again.

Just got my books in from Amazon, I got the rest of Gibson's Sprawl trilogy and Murakami's Dance Dance Dance. The bad news is that I'm about 100 pages into The Idiot, and there's a good chance I won't finish now. The only thing keeping me from stopping entirely is that if I quit now, if I ever pick it up again I'll prob have to read those first 100 pages again.

Nah, not insouciant . I wish I had made a more careful note of them while I was reading it, because there were several times I distinctly remember thinking "Huh, no way any English major uses that term" and then fitting that with, as you say, the allegory to medical school, it seemed very possible that he had some first hand experience. That being said I am probably coloring it a bit with my own personal experience.

Hiss! But I really could see myself rereading this book, and if I do, I will surely keep an eye out. I think I could probably read this in a day if I put my mind to it.

I just realized another thing that made me sad...this book really left me wanting more. I don't know if that is in Grossman's plans though. And I don't want to hear **** about Fillory..I want to know how Julia got from when Q meets her to where she is at the end. That would make for a story.

While all the criticism about Asimov's difficulty at producing characters that speak and act realistically are legitimate, the entire Foundation series is pertty outstanding. People generally say the earlier ones are better, but I personally like Foundation and Earth - effectively the last - the most. Great stuff, anyway, even if you can get past most of the characters talking like they've been translated in a very stilted and scientific manner from another language. Reading the original three first is the best plan, even through chronologically the order may be a tad confusing.

Finished the third book today, with my computer broken it only took me a couple days to blast through it. I liked the series though not as much as ASOIAF (obviously) and the Rothfuss series is also more promising though of course he could screw up the 2nd and 3rd books.

The second book was a bit boring but the third made up for it and I like how he wrapped it all up in the end. I agree his characters are his strong point and I especially liked Glokta a lot.

I'm going to grab his new book when I hit the bookstore on the weekend and hopefully get through it pretty quickly before starting on 2666 by Bolano.

totally agree re: the 2nd book. And I agree with the Rothfuss series having more upside. The ending was very very cool and one of the better endings in any fantasy series I have read. I think I liked Mistborn better as a whole, but its ending was a joke compared with the FL series.

I just read Audrey Niffenegger's The Time Traveller's Wife.

I have to say that I fully loved this book. It's basically a story about 2 people - Henry and Clare. Henry has a disorder where he jumps through time accidentally. I won't say more because I don't want to give away anything... but I really think it's a beautiful story.

I think the time travel device is used well. If I really thought about it there might be a few sorts of unrealistic uses of it even in the context of the world created. but I am willing to suspend my disbelief on that point because I think the story holds up just fine in spite of them. I found this book very difficult to put down, and I thought that it did a great job of getting inside the characters heads without being over the top in doing so. The book accomplishes this with a sort of "live diary" style where the characters tell their side of the story from their perspective. So it would read, "I wake up and Henry was missing." I thought this worked very well. I thought the book was a very nice look into human emotions - both happiness and sadness. It really got a lot of genuine smiles out of me and it wrenched my gut a few times as well.

The next section contains info about the book...it doesn't give away any major driving plot points but if you are like me and like to go into a book totally fresh, I wouldn't read it.

After I read a book, I will typically go read Amazon reviews which are typically spoiler ridden. Since I enjoyed this book so thoroughly, I went and read all the 1 star reviews...I have to say that a lot of them made very strong points. There is some gratuitous cursing that fits well with Henry but doesn't seem to jive that great with Clare. There is some over the top name dropping(especially of punk bands from the 70s and 80s). There is a little bit of over-describing...i.e. I walked down michigan ave, then turned right on 1st. At the corner of 1st and Madison I turned left and then I met Clare. All of these points were true and logical. But I really think you have to be a huuuuuge nit to let them spoil the story. Also, I think that while annoying, a lot of these things made sense in the context of the story. People who are really into punk music are very likely to say which punk records they bought when writing a diary entry of going into a record store. They are also likely, when talking about concerts with their friends, to tlak about specific concerts they went to. Same goes with the cursing...if you are writing something for yourself you are unlikely to dress up the language, I think. I just don't get how these small points make this a 1 star book...unless you are like an old Mom or a wild conservative, I really don't think any of these complaints hold up.

Some people just found the characters annoying. I didn't. Since this a personal opinion I obviously can't disprove them. but I liked the characters.

Some people found the love story ill-portrayed. They wanted more scenes of the characters "proving that they loved eachother" instead of stuff that drove the story itself. I don't really get this complaint at all. The story is not exactly a lovey gush fest, but you def get a sense that the characters love each other. And since the story is told with a jumping time narrative, some things are going to be omitted. I think these people were just looking for a different book when they picked this story up.

Some people were bothered by the fact that the story seemed to be unaware that an older man visiting a young girl throughout her childhood is insanely creepy and would really **** the girl up. I am not sure what Niffenegger's intentions were(Intentional Fallacy, anyone?), but I thought that it was fairly clear that Clare did not have a normal childhood as a result of her meeting Henry. The book doesn't drag her into therapy or anything, but I will say that this odd childhood manifests itself later on. It's hard to speculate on how this story would play out in "real life," and that's why I thought this criticism was not valid. Obviously if a random 32+ year old is hanging out with a girl from ages 6-18, he has got serious problems. But if that 32+ year old is forced to go back and hanging out with his wife and life's love? He is a lot less likely to be ****ed in the head and a lot less likely to have bad intentions...the way a normal creep would. So I think this scenario plays out much differently, and I actually thought the book was realistic on this point. Young children are trusting, and if Henry never betrays this trust it only follows that Clare would love him.

Some people took issue with the portrayal of minorities in this book. And I kinda agree. While not a huge factor, I thought they were portrayed pretty stereotypically and it was a little cringe-worthy.

Final thoughts - I would give this book like a 4.5/5...there were some slight issues but for me it's ALWAYS story first, and this story holds up. The style holds up as well...and I thought this was a perfectly delightful read.

recently purchased via Amazon:

Dan Simmons' Hyperion - I've just heard too many good things not to finally read it
China Meiville's Perido Street Station - another award-winning sci-fi book in the cyber punk tradition (I think)

I didn't like his stand alone book as much as the trilogy. Way too much sex. I am okay with sex for "gritty realism", but this book was ridiculously over the top, like it's almost a porn fantasy book.

I just finished my second novel by Anne Patchett and loved them both (I read Bel Canto and then The Patron Saint of Liars). She's a great writer, I highly recommend picking up one of her books.

So the girlfriend wants us to read a book together, which seems like a pretty good idea. Can anyone reccomend a Halloween book or some sort of psychological thriller?

What constitutes a halloween book?

A good short easy read. I certainly wouldn't recommend it to a non C&H fan.

It was interesting to read about his responses to aspiring cartoonists looking for critiques even though he was overwhelmingly against attention. The honesty and detail he put into the responses paints another side of the portrait of Watterson than his reclusive behavior implies.

It was also illuminating to read about just how much Jim Davis and Charles Schultz were making, and how easily Bill could have done the same but absolutely refused to tarnish the strip with merchandising.

His ability to separate himself from Michael Jordan, The Simpsons, and almost every once great boxer you can think of, and truly bow out for good while still being fresh/relevant/awesome is refreshing.

It also tempts me to buy some watercolors and embarrass myself.

finished The Good Rat, a short read by Jimmy Breslin. Good book, it's relatively short, describes the true story of two hitmen cops who worked for the mob. Throughout the book Breslin notes anecdotal pieces and information/visits with some of the mobsters you all know and love (ie. Jimmy from goodfellas (jimmy burke), john gotti, big paulie castellano, etc). it's a short read and pretty fun/easy. i enjoyed this book, but i am somewhat partial to mob stories, as they are some of my favorite to read (all the scams, tough guy mentality, all are sweet).

onto blindsight now...read alot of great recommendations for that book, so i have high hopes.

Rosemary's Baby