Reference where i said anything to the sort. All i said was i have talked with vets , the breeder and hours of reading on doberman specific forums. To boot my mother is a vet tech.

You pretend as if you know how painful it is or isn't. I know he will be put under during the procedure , so the actual act is not painful. I can only point to other people who have had it done to there puppy to gauge just how painful it is. I'm sure there is some discomfort involved , but how much , neither you or I know , but from other's experiences they have seen little after the procedure pointing towards a huge discomfort or pain and that the recovery from being spay/neuter was of much greater discomfort.

I have heard that those who's foreskin is preserved have more sensitive & pleasurable sex (for themselves , doubt it's much different for the woman) , whether or not that is the truth , you'll have to ask joe rogan for his references , since i was a victim of the oh so cruel procedure that is circumcision. Damn my parents , they should have known taking my peen skin away was a horrendous , painful , cruel act.

What do i think though? Hm , not much. I know i had no say in the procedure , and can't figure out a reason it was done other than some weird tradition , or purely cosmetic reasons. Am i against it ? I really couldn't care less about the politics of circumcision .

I do know that they'll suffer none of that pain if you don't cut off their ears though. That's pretty much enough for me.

I really can't understand how anyone would want to gamble on how much pain a puppy is going to feel if you cut its ears off - the fact that something like this is considered acceptable, even normal, by some people, is pretty ****ing terrifying.

so i shouldn't be seeking advice from people who breed & show dogs , Dr's who treat dogs , & people who are passionate enough to log in thousands of posts on a forum dedicated to dobermans , oh noes , i shoulda just logged in 2p2 and posted in bbv so the experts could flame.... riiiiight , who exactly should i talk to when getting a 2nd opinion than? lolpeta?

There's a quick test you can use to find out who to listen to - if they tell you to start cutting body parts off your dog for no other reason than "oh, it'd look so cute/cool/awesome!!!", then they're not good people to listen to.

And as I've already explained, people who breed, show and take a big interest in a breed often also do horrible things to their dogs, both their individual dogs and to the breed. So no, the fact that they are interested in the breed, do not in any way on its own make them people to listen to when it comes to what is actually good for your dog.

Would/will you get your son circumcised?

Does it cost extra?

Serious answer is I don't know. If there are proven benefits i suppose i would. If it would save face because for some weird reason foreskin is frowned upon or ridiculed i suppose i would consider it just to save him the hassle.

More than likely though I wouldn't. Not because i think it is cruel or inhumane , but unless there is some reason to do so , why do it.

Kinda think i know where your going here though. So why modify my dog but not my son (in theory , since i have no children)? Simple answer because i want to. I like the cropped look. I have no preference in regards to my [in theory] sons peen skin , but i do regarding my pup's ears. Sure call it selfish. But cruel , inhumane & appalling , well i disagree and frankly feel insulted by the slew of responses i have gotten....

Serious question.

edited in a serious answer....

That is the most awesome photo itt

Well, things could be worse - at least no one is cutting your ears off because they think it'd look cool.

Lorena Bobbitt itt

LirvAjelly.jpg

So should i expect similar outbursts of negative comments like i received here when walking my dog or taking him to a off leash park after his ears are cropped?

Or do most of you closet activists keep your mouth shut IRL and just mutter things under your breath?

I honestly didn't know the general public was so against the practice , or else i would have just saved me the effort & distraction by not including that in my post. What i certainly wasn't doing was asking for advice or anyone's opinion , but oh well.

Guess i should have just read some youtube comments or yahoo question answers. Yikes. And oddly enough they all come with the harsh bombardment of moral high ground followed by insults. I find it funny that most of the time when people are arguing as to what I SHOULD DO aka a matter of personal choice they disagree with , they resort to name calling and putting people down , saying we should be locked up , we are morons , etc. Have these people taken the time to read the history of the doberman , the reasons the ears & tail are done? Do they even own a doberman? Not specifically speaking to anyone here although some of you certainly qualify.



/de-railing thread (on my part at least , promise.)

You still don't get it do you - 'personal choice they disagree with'? You are talking about cutting the ears off an animal because you think it'd look cool. And if someone disagrees with this it is because they're taking a moral high ground and disagree with a personal choice?

If you cut off your own ears, I won't care. That is a personal choice. When you cut off someone elses ears, that is very far from a personal choice. You're talking about your dog like he's an object with no feelings that you can't believe anyone would object to you doing as you please with regardless what it means to him. It will hurt just as much for your dog to have his ears cut off as it would for you. Only, you have a choice in the matter.

Just because you are allowed to (and as said repeatedly, you live in one of the very few civilized countries where torture like this is not banned) does not mean it is right. And how anyone can, based on stupidity like tradition, history or whatever, justify to themselves that it is ok to mutilate a dog because it'll look trendy, is way beyond my understanding.

Since this barbaric practice has been banned in my country since the 1950s, I can't say it has ever come up.

For my part, I would be ashamed to walk around with a dog that clearly shows that the owner cares much more about his own superficial and pointless likes and dislikes than he does about his dogs well being.

It is not torture and you continually say "cut his ears off" as if i am whacking his entire ear off. It is trimming of the ear. I would think docking is worse since you actually cut off the entire tail , whereas with the ear you are dealing with floppy skin and modifying it not removing it altogether. Docking comes standard over here unless you contact a breeder ahead of time to request otherwise.

You have every right to disagree with my stance , but to call me barbaric , cruel , abusive and the numerous jabs at me that i must be stupid not to have the same view as you is crossing the line.

Again i have read numerous "trip reports" all of which point to the act of neutering being far more painful for the dog. Every report of puppy after getting cropped has been the same , the puppy showed no signs of discomfort or pain.

The fact is, it is banned in numerous countries for being animal cruelty. If you want to tell yourself cutting a dogs ears off for looks alone is not barbaric and cruel, then that's your choice.

You would get the same reaction from me if you were talking about docking his tail. An additional factor is that both cropping ears and docking of tails reduces the dogs ability to communicate with other dogs as they use both ears and tail for that. The result (in addition to an unhappy dog) is unnecessary fights and problems between dogs.

I have not called you barbaric or cruel - I've called the thing you are going to do to your dog barbaric and cruel. As for stupid, I believe the only time I used that word was by saying the exact opposite, that you were not stupid.

Again, I don't think neutering should be done either - today there are way better ways of controlling male dogs. And any owner should have enough control over their dog to where unwanted breeding is unlikely to occour.

There are however reasons for neutering that go way beyond 'because it looks cool' (especially in countries where there are problems with too many dogs), so it's really nowhere near the same debate as that of cropping ears and docking tails.

Dude.

YOU ****ING ASKED!

seriously, obviously we don't agree with your choice. Is it yours to make? Obviously*. But don't act like a whiny little child when you ask for our opinion and we give it to you.

Actually in my OP i did not ask. After posting the picture all the posts following were regarding me cropping ears. I have already researched both sides of the coin far before posting here. I thought maybe there would be some actual horror stories or something i had not read about , instead of all this [assumed] pain , discomfort , and LOL "torture".

& I am not acting like a whiny little child. Name-calling is something you would expect from a whiny little child , which i haven't participated in (outside of calling you closet activists)

You clearly didn't do all that much research if you didn't know the majority of the population have negative feelings towards it.
This makes me think that the only people you were talking to about "the other side of the coin" are the people who advocate for cosmetic modifications.

Regardless, you've already decided. You've already said you won't be changing your mind. You already know the universal reaction from people on this board has been to think it's an idiotic thing to do and cruel to the animal. Why do you keep posting in this thread then?

And, for the record, I wouldn't say anything directly to you if I saw you walking your puppy around with the stupid cast they have to put on the ears afterward to get them to stand up. That would be rude.
However, I would (and do) think less of someone who does cosmetically change their animal. I would never date a guy who did it, because I think it speaks a lot about their character.