in countries where guns are illegal criminals dont have them either and there are about 1/10000th of our murder rate. Use theories that are true instead of these BS ones like "if we dont have em the bad guys will and we cant protect ourselves! ZOMG!"

All we have in America these days are ppl with no real logical sense of anything or understanding of the subject, just pre-programmed lines they have heard before, like that one.

I don't think you understand tactics involved with home invasion and CQB defense. Invade my house and you will find yourself in a fatal funnel anywhere you turn. If you start to pie the corner you will find that every single place that anyone spends any time is a position of dominance and a highly trained marksman is within arms reach of an overwhelming firepower advantage (whether it is me or my wife). I don't think this will give them the upper hand. But, what do I know? : )
Lastly, I am pretty sure you are confusing fact and opinion there.

Wrong. I am right here! Americans kill each other, that is true. The answer why is not entirely clear. What is your answer for Switzerland and Canada? Both of those have firearm ownership rates that rival the US and and tiny murder rates. Why do cities in the United States that had the Sullivan Laws have the highest murder rates? Some do protect themselves with firearms. They do. Many more die every year. This is a cheap insurance policy to guard against genocide and pure despotism. There has never been a genocide in a country where the population was well armed. However, perhaps you would prefer that the United States were more like Rwanda where genocide was possible using only machetes? 800,000 people died from machetes and not a couple thousand years ago like when 500,000,000 people died from the Gladius at the hands of the Roman Empire. Why weren't these places non-violent utopia's without firearms?

This sounds good but I don't understand it
How many firearms do you have in your house such that everywhere is covered?

Let's not muddy the waters further by bringing other variables into it. For argument's sake we are comparing the developed nations in the 21st century

To be fair for B4L, in Alaska 90% of the people in the state carry a gun, and there is no license needed to carry a concealed weapon.

I was watching Alaska State Troopers today and he pulls over a guy and the guy in the car has a concealed glock and a big bag of weed. The officer just unloads the gun and then writes a ticket for the weed.

Sounds like Alaska is the place to live. Although those eskimos can't handle their liquor.

Switzerland has a high firearm ownership rate because every male who served in the army (compulsory military service) and is therefore part of the reserve, gets to keep his duty weapon at home.
So its not like all these weapons are used all the time.
And about the "tiny murder rate" in Switzerland: the rate of people killed by a firearm in Switzerland is 0,9:100,000. In Germany (less guns obv) the rate is 0,2:100,000.

Beat: Europeans don't know the difference between a comma and a decimal point.

Ok so a vicious tyrant takes over the federal government and proclaims himself ruler. Let's say he's a general and has the army behind him. Is the fact that you have a gun in your house going to make any difference? With the exception of some nutjobs who bunker down in the mountains and get their families slaughtered, will gun ownership by some of the population make any difference in a military takeover of the government?

I don't care about this issue in the slightest. Keep as many guns as you want. But the argument that we need guns to protect against despotism is not very realistic. Yeah, I know, Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Maoist China, yada yada yada. They all had gun control laws. They also all had power before they had gun laws, and their power rested upon much more than the fact the population didn't have guns.

Also, 500 million people dead at the hands of the Roman Empire? Did I read that right? Where in the world did you get that number?

Naturally you don't understand it, but you could look it up. You could learn what it meant and why your conclusion was extremely flawed. People spend most of their time in the living room and bedrooms. There is an M-16 in the one bedroom and an AK type 56 in the other. My gym has a 12 ga with 00Buck shot (one shot is like being shot 9 times with a .32 pistol). The living room has a Kimber Team Match .45 with IQ ammo in it. You get the idea. I am never more than five steps from an overwhelming firepower advantage over likely opposition.
Let's not muddy the water by pretending that you are not wanting to dial back the clock on weapon technology to before the 16th Century sir. : ) If we do then previous technology will still be superior. It doesn't change anything. You did not address the Swiss the Canadians or Finns for example that have huge numbers of firearms and little murder by gun comparatively.


You don't seem to understand a fundamental concept that it is a civil right in our country manifest in our Bill of Rights. There is just no explaining that. Your country may be best for you and curtailed liberty may suit you. I love Germany just the way it is. I lived there a few years. The US is the best country for us though it is indeed flawed as all countries are.

lol, it´s Americans who are doing it wrong

You think all or the majority of guns in the US are used all the time?

.

Add up the Wars and the accounts from historians. There were many accounts all the way along. The Romans kept good records.

I don't know how to explain the fundamental tactical situtation more clearly. There are spots all over my house where you have to come through a small space to enter the area which means I could be in any part of the room, and concealed with a weapon trained on where the bad guy is going to have to be. If the bad guy has to be in a door way that is a fatal funnel. I don't remember what the other stuff was. Suffice it to say you have much to learn about tactics.

Who uses weapons in the Army? People that have used them growing up quite often. People from big city liberal places just don't serve in our military. There are some exceptions, but they are really quite rare. You do understand that we don't have firearms just sitting around in the middle of the road don't you? There really is no such thing as weapons on the street. They are either owned my law abiding people or by criminals. The highway department really has nothing to do with them. : )

You think that the crime statistics all over the world are a conspiracy by gun companies to make it seem as though the Swiss, Canadians, and Finns have less murder than they do? Wow. I am going to resist recommending you keep wearing a tinfoil hat, but that really does not sound remotely reasonable.

Feel free to disagree with our Bill of Rights, but it is a loser issue for the opponents and it will never be repealed, so you may as well just make peace with that fact.

wait? that's really you in your avatar?

if this is the case i think this guy might be able to take you.




afterwards you will prob become bff

no, my point is that gun owners in the US have bought their firearms because they felt the need to own one, in Switzerland they just get them because they did their duty in the army.

.

KB, surely you know the answer to this. The cities that pass these type laws are places like NY, DC, etc that have the most violent people. When the most violent cities pass restrictive gun laws and curb gun deaths by a little bit, but still have lower murder rates than say, Lincoln Nebraska, it isnt the fault of the guns laws.

You are too smart to keep making these ridic arguments. Your prison argument was equally ******ed. No kidding that when you put rapists/murderers together in cages that you'll have high rates of violence despite no weapons. You want to bet that if they had firearms in every cell that the homicide rate would be higher?

Please, do better.

you never answered how you feel about me owning this in several months

Comparing the USA (or any first world western democracy) to a country liek Jamaica is ridiculous.

Demographics are also important, which you fail to consider.

Guns aren't the only factor that cause homicides and other crimes. Poorer, more desperate neighborhoods/states/countries with fewer jobs, less opportunity and potentially lax police control will obviously have higher crime. Racial demographics also come into play here.

For example, Switzerland might have more guns, but the standard of living over there takes a huge collective crap over the overall standard of living in the USA. So people don't need to resort to serious crimes in order to subsist.
Whereas the opposite is true for Jamaica. And the same comparisons can be made using different states in the USA.

More guns doesn't always guarantee more homicides when other factors are involved. But with all else equal, they most certainly do. It just makes sense. More people have guns, more people will get killed. More people people have tripled-fried bacon dipped in chocolate and then battered and deep fried, more people will get fat. If you made personal tactical nukes legal, then the amount of terrorist attacks would go up.

I can understand you Americans arguing on the side of guns. It's part of your culture. Guns are cool. Hunting is cool. So is shooting a robber. But you have to concede that when lots of people have guns, there will be more crime, and there will definitely be more homicides than there otherwise would have been. Disputing this displays a ridiculous amount of ignorance.

we're thrilled 4 u.

OP,
If Americans all of a sudden decide 2 go berserk,
and we all kill each other off with our guns...
well hell, you'll have somewherez 2 go,
if perhaps Australia becomes more parched and inhospitable,
or black mambas an crocodiles start chasing ur ass down the street.

Ed it makes me sad to see that you need that weapon to fill the voids in your life. Maybe spend your money on your family not a penis extender

Important FACT......guns aren't used in all or even a large percentage of crimes in the US.

The argument that without guns there wouldn't be crime is loltarded.

Several people have said many times in this thread that you need to stop watching the news and check some real facts about crime.

OP knows alot about alot of things, hes rite!