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Push this turn? Push this turn?

10-24-2008 , 09:26 PM
Villain in this hand is unknown. Do you guys like the turn push? Bear in mind i still only have 40% equity against a better ace here.

Party Poker $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (UTG): $22.00
MP: $24.75
CO: $55.00
BTN: $45.90
SB: $39.45
BB: $55.10

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with A 7
Hero raises to $0.85, MP calls $0.85, 2 folds, SB calls $0.75, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.80) 2 A 5 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.80, MP calls $2.80, SB folds

Turn: ($8.40) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $18.35, MP calls $18.35
10-25-2008 , 03:11 AM
hmmmm, even though a push looks bluffy which may induce a call you may still only get called by Ax so i dont like it

im not sold on a push here and would probably just value bet it even though the money probably goes in anyway if he has an ace. with a read saying he will call a push with worse (eg worse flushdraw) or is a suspicious player who treats overbets as bluffs then id like it i suppose.

just to throw it out there to everyone..if hero has KhQh is this a good line? (eg cos pairs < top pair can fold)

Last edited by OziBattler; 10-25-2008 at 05:47 AM. Reason: > changed to <
10-25-2008 , 04:00 AM
seems like a spot where you won't fold better or get called by worse if you stack off.

i'd check the turn to try to keep the pot small and maybe get away if the river blanks and villain bets big.
10-25-2008 , 08:39 AM
Fold preflop?

This is good example of why weak suited aces suck oop, you hit the flop hard and still its awkward. Hands like A7s suited really really need position imo I wouldn't be opening this till the CO under normal circumstances.
10-25-2008 , 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by counterspell
seems like a spot where you won't fold better or get called by worse if you stack off.

i'd check the turn to try to keep the pot small and maybe get away if the river blanks and villain bets big.
Ditto I dont agree with the comment folding preflop as you are playing shorthanded
10-26-2008 , 11:06 PM
Dump it PF until you get more experience and become a winning player. sure you feel way sexier playing 20/17 than 16/14, but until you are a winner, theres absolutely nothing wrong with playing tight (and there isnt even if you are a winner)

I dont like the turn push at all, you arent likely folding out any better hands, and no worse one is calling (so you miss out him getting to hit his worse flush draw or pay off another bet with A3). Id just check/call.
10-26-2008 , 11:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OziBattler
just to throw it out there to everyone..if hero has KhQh is this a good line? (eg cos pairs < top pair can fold)
no, cuz on this board most of his range is weighted to TP and getting anyone to fold TP (especially when its an ace) at NL25 is a losing proposition. and if he did have like 99 or something here, hed fold for way less than a shove, so it would still be bad
10-27-2008 , 04:16 PM
I'm dead set against shoving this turn. There are too many better aces that are never going to fold and you basically only win when your fd comes or if he's silly enough to have just called w/ a worse FD, but we have no reason to think he can do this so we just can't make this play.

I think you should just keep betting. Worse aces can surely call us, eventhough he is unknown. I'd even bet the river for value when it blanks because I think there is some, albeit thin, value to pick up... I like a 2/3 bet on the turn and like half pot bet on the river....

Quote:
This is good example of why weak suited aces suck oop, you hit the flop hard and still its awkward. Hands like A7s suited really really need position imo I wouldn't be opening this till the CO under normal circumstances.
Heh, I raise Axs from any position depending on the table. I really hate these types of general statements. Often at 25NL the tables we can open pretty damn loosely even from UTG because there are so many tags.

If i'm sitting UTG w/ A2s and i've got like a 40/1/1 in the BB and everyone else is 23/20 or lower then i'm raising all day long. Even if we get called by one of the tags he'll be giving up a ton post flop and we don't have to get carried away with top pair plus that fish is going to be coming along for the ride a TON and we WILL have position on HIM.
10-27-2008 , 08:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inspectorgadget
I'm dead set against shoving this turn. There are too many better aces that are never going to fold and you basically only win when your fd comes or if he's silly enough to have just called w/ a worse FD, but we have no reason to think he can do this so we just can't make this play.

I think you should just keep betting. Worse aces can surely call us, eventhough he is unknown. I'd even bet the river for value when it blanks because I think there is some, albeit thin, value to pick up... I like a 2/3 bet on the turn and like half pot bet on the river....



Heh, I raise Axs from any position depending on the table. I really hate these types of general statements. Often at 25NL the tables we can open pretty damn loosely even from UTG because there are so many tags.

If i'm sitting UTG w/ A2s and i've got like a 40/1/1 in the BB and everyone else is 23/20 or lower then i'm raising all day long. Even if we get called by one of the tags he'll be giving up a ton post flop and we don't have to get carried away with top pair plus that fish is going to be coming along for the ride a TON and we WILL have position on HIM.

Wtf!? OP has given no information on our opponents atall so I dont see how your range with a 40/1/1 in the BB or the fact you "raise Axs from any position depending on the table" has any relevance(and you say you hate generic statements, wft?). Granted you have far more experience at 25NL but all I'm saying is that opening A7s UTG should not be a standard play for a beginning player. Obviously preflop ranges have to be dynamic but in a vacuum I don't think its bad advice to fold small suited aces UTG.

FWIW With no information I'm mostly folding this UTG and my VPIP is in the mid 20s.

      
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