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nl lostaments, help me understand plz nl lostaments, help me understand plz

06-20-2008 , 04:37 PM
i am a limit player and rarely venture into nl territory, so last time this happens (sorry for no converter, lost db in the meantime)

NL 1/2, 6max online

Hero is MP w/ 150BB
Button is 20/12 w/150BB
SB and BB are both 27/20ish w/200BB each

Hero is dealt 88, raise 4BB
Button calls, SB calls, BB raises to 18BB, Hero folds, Btn folds, SB calls

Flop is T 8 2 rainbow

SB checks, BB bets 30, SB raises to 70, BB pushes remaining 150, SB instacalls

both show AQo..

=??=?=? i leave the game shortly afterwards...
06-20-2008 , 06:17 PM
If BB is squeezing very light then we can take a flop w/ 99+ (maaaaybe 88) and play our hand for showdown value. However if BB is unknown we would only be able to call and play for set value, since your avg 3bettor is not 3betting 77, or AJ, etc. we need about 12.5:1 implieds to play for set value against a tight range. Given that you have to call 14bb more, that would be:
14*12.5 = 175

So given that you only have 146bb more effective, you should fold. Nh.

Note that if you see the flop with your 2 opponents it is extremely unlikely they both get it in w/ AQo now that there are 3players in the pot. The squeezer will likely 3bet, but then once you call or raise the 3rd player is not putting $ in w/ high cards, and the pfr will likely fold to your raise, so it's not like you would have tripled up if you could have just seen a flop.

Surf
06-20-2008 , 10:43 PM
Just read an article in poker pro magazine which fits this very well, Ill quote a few paragraphs. It is in question/answer format.

"Q: What do the pros do after they fold their cards preflop? should you remember what you tossed? I seem to get frustrated by the hands I could have made (had I not folded), like when the flop comes J-4-4 after I have tossed J-4 offsuit. Some nights it seems the only pots I could have won are with rags I threw away.

A: Once you have folded, dont look back. to look back invites madness. You made your decision, now live with it. if it is the correct decision, it is correct no matter what the flop contains. The fact that you would have made a full house with your J-4 does not mean you should've played this hand, which is a long-term loser. Flops like 44-j when you hold J-4 will never occur often enough for you to show a profit."

Ok now obviously folding J-4 is a lot more obvious then folding pocket 8s but considering your opponents likely range it really isnt as different as it seems imo. The real reason you feel wrong about this hand is likely due to the fact that it just so happens you likely would have won a big pot this time. Over the long run however, this call would've lost money for you. When this happens to me I like to say to myself "it wouldnt have come if I called". This might not be technically accurate but it makes me feel a lot better.
06-21-2008 , 06:59 AM
yeah with 4bb invested you'll get yourself into a ton of tricky spots and probably end up going crazy and losing lots of money if you start making hero 4 bets or call downs. Once you've sat for a while and have more of an idea of how people are playing you'll instinctively know what to do. This is also a great example of how powerful the squeeze can be, since you have the best hand a ton here but there's just so little you can do except fold.
06-21-2008 , 09:45 AM
i am sorry if it seemed that way, no i think my play was ok, i dont mind i'd have it this time. i'm not frustrated i folded 'the best hand' pf....

i was just wondering if there is an explanation behind SB's calling off his whole stack vs pf raiser/ flop 3betor with A hi

i kinda understand BBs playing, but SBs play bothers me for some reason and i cannot see it being profitable 1 in 3 times given pot numbers... i guess SB thought BB was doing this with basically atc and he thought he was flipping (stove shows sth like 44/56 in favor of AQo vs atc)?

i still see no point in this.

      
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