1/2 live

Coming from limit, one concept I'm having a little trouble with is "getting it all in" and whether these are reckless plays or standard plays. I mean, sometimes before the hand I'm sitting there with my BI+ and 30 seconds later it's all sitting in the middle of the table and I'm wondering if this is good play.

Ex 1.

I've been playing for about 5 hours and I'm going to leave in about 3 orbits. I've been playing TAG, opening to about 5xBB + limpers, barrelling in position if HU (at least on the flop and then playing poker from there), playing straightforward in multi-way pots and I'm up almost a BI.

Villain (SB) is a terrible passive fish. Lottsa limping in EP, will call most raises after limping, lottsa chasing plus a really nice payoff monkey (he'll calldown reasonable bets with 2nd pair and then make a wtf-the-pot-is-big river call too).

Preflop (8 players): Hero is MP with Q Q
EP limps, Hero raises to $10, Button calls $10, SB calls $10, EP calls $10

Flop (4 players, ~$40): T 6 5
Checked to Hero who bets $30, Button folds, SB calls $30, EP folds

Turn (2 players, ~$100): J
Checked to Hero who bets $50, SB calls $50 (see notes below)

River (2 players, ~$200): J
Checked to Hero who bets SB's remaining amount of $75...

My plan on the turn was to get villains whole remaining stack into the middle. The river card is actually fairly good for me as I now counterfeit weird two-pair hands (which still might pay me off), plus I get payed off by Tx and possibly other pair hands, but obviously missed draws don't pay me off (although, who knows, maybe A high flush draw makes a wtf call here with so much in pot). I misread the stack as being about $90 so I was going to bet $50 on the turn and then leave easy $40 bet on river. Villain actually had $125 (am I the only one who has trouble reading single stack sizes?), so I'm thinking I should went more like $70/$55 or something like that.

So, my plan is to put 82.5 BB into the middle with a QQ overpair. Good plan?

Advice on all streets appreciated.

GcluelessnoobG

Flop = bingo. SPR = 5 + OVERPAIR -> I will try to get the money in always unless some tight passive nit makes a minraise telling me he has a set. bet size is ok, though 40 is also good. speeds commitment so turn will be an easy shove (instead of having to break it into two turn and river bets). Don't be thinking you have to stack someone every time you flop overpairs.

bet more on the turn. Yeah, I like 70 or 80 or even the whole thing.

I think you're right about betting more on the flop, especially vs 3 opponents; I'm probably thinking a pot size bet is better.

On the turn, my thinking is that a shove would scare away Tx/etc. which I don't really want to do; I wanted him to stack off in two nice manageable bite sized amounts (although I woulda sized them better had I counted his stack better). Good?

You're probably right against that particular hand*, but you know, if you have some time to analyze this, give him a range and see what would be best against each type of hand. OESD, flush draw, pocket pairs, etc. (this type of player rarely folds 8+ out draws)
Could be OK bet size either way...but yeah, like you said maybe 70/55 or 75/50 if you had counted correctly. then again...if you ask for a count, it looks more like you're trying to stack him and gives him time to think.

*you gave this read: "he'll calldown reasonable bets with 2nd pair and then make a wtf-the-pot-is-big river call too"

I think your overall plan was a good one. Vs. this guy given your read betting should be whatever gets the money in the pot I guess. As mentioned by MoM before bet more on the flop given it's 4-ways and that would make the turn easier to stack off on.

But this is how you beat the loose small stake games. Wait for the premiums, get HU vs. the passive fish and stack off. If he hit runner-runner with a J so be it. But given the amount he paid for it you know your play is fine and will pay off long term.

you have $160 pf right?

make it $13 pf, giving you an SPR of 4-5. pot flop and shove turn.

I think I had about ~$350 preflop; I didn't mention my stack size cuz I had villain covered.

Bet more on the turn, the guys a fish and isnt folding his draw.

I play mostly Live and I tend to make most of my flop bets pot size. I keep it pretty simple for the most part. Players I play against are calling 3/4 all the time and will easily call more so I make em pot sized for the most part. But I play mostly in So Cal games where most of the lower limit NL games are short stack buyins(two street games a lot of the time). Most dont treat the games as short stack games and call stupid bets on draws etc, so I go ahead and bet on the larger size. You'd be surprised what hands people will call large sized bets with all the time

In general, I think the concensus here would be correct to bet more on the turn. However, I like GG's line of thought on this particular opponent. GG has decided he WANTS this Villian's action making a two step betting plan to stacking sensible. Also, GG bet enough on the flop to get h/u with the Villian. Had GG faced more opponents on the turn, then clearly a bigger bet on the turn would have been warranted.

Frond makes of good point of what life is like in Cali. where it usually makes sense to bet bigger, and earlier. But GG isn't Cali is he (?) and his game structure may be different. Again, given that GG got to be h/u with this particular Villian on the flop, I say NH, sir.

In hindsight, I think I may have misplayed the turn quite badly if villain had a pair + flush draw as I'm giving him easily correct odds to call with that... with that in mind and the pot at stake, I'm not sure the "easy 2 step installment plan" method of betting is best...

My 1/2 NL game is $200 maximum buy-in, although some players do play shortstacked so obviously the money is going all-in on earlier streets in those cases.

yeah. so...against hands like A5ss and assorted draws for instance, which I believe comprise a larger portion of his range than Tx, the bigger turn bet is to your favor. Because...ok...he calls the turn bet 100% of the time then mucks river if he misses. Whereas, if he calls the smaller turn bet, your money still goes in on the river (youre committed)...so you earn less the times he misses - your remaining money basically always goes in, so you don't want to give him a cheap way to get out of the hand if he misses or somehow deduces you have him beat.
Now, against a hand like 77, I think he mucks the turn anyway because you two-barrel. It's going to be hard to stack him if he has that type of hand (maybe) but he might just see a larger turn bet as a "please fold" type bet and call anyway. I think either option is equal in EV.
The hand in his range that favors the plan you chose is the Tx stuff. But obv that's not the only thing we're playing against.