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12-09-2013 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk
LOL MB Churchill was a national hero, a man who stood up for what was right over personal gain, avoided the national psychosis for revenge post WW1, stood up for peace over appeasement and was a firm opponent of socialism and communism

Plus he did some good stuff during the war.
Integral in the development of the atom bomb.

Flawed figure, for sure, but I think it's hard to argue that he wasn't pretty instrumental in Britain's willingness to fight the Nazis. Make of that what you will.
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12-09-2013 , 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kokiri
Integral in the development of the atom bomb.

Flawed figure, for sure, but I think it's hard to argue that he wasn't pretty instrumental in Britain's willingness to fight the Nazis. Make of that what you will.
The only way to avoid war after the awful Versailles treaty was to stand up to Hitler

We appeased him and let him do whatever with disastrous results
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12-09-2013 , 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk
LOL MB Churchill was a national hero, a man who stood up for what was right over personal gain, avoided the national psychosis for revenge post WW1, stood up for peace over appeasement and was a firm opponent of socialism and communism

Plus he did some good stuff during the war.
There is a difference between a good leader, and a virtuous one.

<undrafted> was a tremendous leader of men, but I don't think anyone would call him virtuous.
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12-09-2013 , 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Swiitch
There is a difference between a good leader, and a virtuous one.

<undrafted> was a tremendous leader of men, but I don't think anyone would call him virtuous.
In fact, if given a draft of great 20th century leaders, Churchill might very well be my choice for top pick, so please don't think I'm bashing the guy.
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12-09-2013 , 06:18 PM
The Pope pick has to be a joke, right?
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12-09-2013 , 06:19 PM
didn't realize it was on me. you can skip me for now
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12-09-2013 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk
LOL MB Churchill was a national hero, a man who stood up for what was right over personal gain, avoided the national psychosis for revenge post WW1, stood up for peace over appeasement and was a firm opponent of socialism and communism

Plus he did some good stuff during the war.
Is being a national hero a virtue? Want me to list some non-British "national heroes" who you probably wouldn't agree were particularly virtuous?

He did not "stand up for what was right over personal gain". That's absolute nonsense. He backstabbed his party to gain political preference, often undermined and backstabbed his fellows to gain and was a thoroughly horrible man. What is this "national psychosis for revenge after WWI" you talk of? We won, dude, and he led the demands for extreme punishment of the Germans that was to lead to the fall of the Weimar Republic (which he didn't like, being an extreme monarchist) and Hitler. He didn't favour "peace over appeasement". He favoured war at all times.

Being an opponent of socialism is not a virtue. Are you not proud of the NHS? You are a person who complains that the rich have become richer and the poor poorer, yet you think socialism is something that must be opposed tooth and nail? Are you being serious?
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12-09-2013 , 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk
The only way to avoid war after the awful Versailles treaty was to stand up to Hitler

We appeased him and let him do whatever with disastrous results
You must have been asleep through your British history lessons and you certainly don't know much about Churchill.

He opposed Versailles because he thought it was too generous to the Germans. He was more or less sidelined in the 1930s because he did so much harm in the 1920s.

He supported Mussolini because the one thing he hated more than blacks was working people, and he liked how Mussolini removed their freedoms. He would have done the same in Britain if he was able to, but he was never popular enough before WWII to achieve it, mostly because everything, literally everything, he touched turned to ****. In WWI his terrible grasp of strategy led to a huge military disaster, in which he sacrificed thousands of lives for nothing. His lack of understanding of economics led to ruin in the 1920s when he took Britain back onto the gold standard.

He hated Gandhi and opposed Indian independence to the extent that he refused to have any part in a government led by Baldwin. Here you are, suggesting that Gandhi was a great man, while here's this other extremely virtuous racist, who opposed everything Gandhi stood for with his whole being. He was personally responsible for a famine in India during WWII that killed as many as three million people.

When asked to release food for those people, he said, and note that Gandhi was known for hunger strikes, "If food is so scarce in India, why isn't Gandhi dead yet?"

The war party would eventually have won out in the UK and we would likely have won WWII regardless who fought it because we defeated the Germans in the Battle of Britain and that had nothing at all to do with Churchill.

I'm ashamed that this piece of **** is one of the foremost representatives of my nation. A scumbag, a liar, a monstrous tower of vanity, a racist, an imperialist, a hater of my people.
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12-09-2013 , 06:35 PM
we expended millions of lives fighting national socialism abroad and what did we vote in directly after the war? A socialist!

Since we've had almost 60 years of almost non stop socialism and things are the way they are, excuse me while I don't perscribe more socialism as the cure.
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12-09-2013 , 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk
we expended millions of lives fighting national socialism abroad and what did we vote in directly after the war? A socialist!

Since we've had almost 60 years of almost non stop socialism and things are the way they are, excuse me while I don't perscribe more socialism as the cure.
I hope you're trolling because this is embarrassing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gambit8888
The Pope pick has to be a joke, right?
He hated communists. Apparently that is the highest virtue man has achieved.
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12-09-2013 , 06:40 PM
You're bitter MB

The second world war would never have happened had Churchill been in power during the 30s, he was the leading voice against appeasement and it was all because he knew appeasement would lead to war.

He had his flaws, he was a politician, but he did what was right and was cast out of top tier politics because of his conviction.

I've read a really long biography of Churchill in the 1930's, a great man.
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12-09-2013 , 06:41 PM
Opposing totalitarianism is virtuous.
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12-09-2013 , 06:44 PM
He is almost the embodiment of everything bad about England.
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12-09-2013 , 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk
Opposing totalitarianism is virtuous.
He only opposed totalitarianism of the left. He supported it strongly on the right. He was a huge admirer of Mussolini and as usual for British Tories, supported and encouraged dictators of the right around the world, regardless what they did. He was a strong supporter of apartheid.

He didn't oppose Hitler in the 30s for political reasons. He liked his antisemitism, which he shared.

A total scumbag.
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12-09-2013 , 06:52 PM
He didn't even oppose socialism for the right reasons. He opposed it because he despised the lower classes and didn't think they should have any say in governance. He was horrified at the overturning of the old order. He thought that well-bred men like him should rule. He was a horrific snob. He was not a huge fan of democracy and strongly opposed unions and their involvement in politics, largely because they brought the wrong element to power. He believed the proper process in politics was for patricians to put forward men (and only men) from among their number and allow the plebs to choose who to rule them (as the Anglo-Saxons had done).
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12-09-2013 , 07:04 PM
LOL MB keep on hating on the good guys and drafting pedos
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12-09-2013 , 07:52 PM
ok ibavly asked to be skipped so I guess Donk is up in the 3rd round. We're more than halfway done and have highlighted many virtuous humans.
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12-09-2013 , 07:56 PM
damn didn't realize mother theresa would launch so many lawnmowers

more controversial than jesus
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12-09-2013 , 08:23 PM
Jesus is just alright with me
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12-09-2013 , 08:25 PM
jesus is just alright oh yeah
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12-09-2013 , 08:32 PM
Jesus has his good points.

Mother Teresa is a mixed bag, to say the least. If you think it's a virtue to enjoy watching other people suffer (and judging by some of the picks in this draft, some people do think that), then she was pretty virtuous. You may have preferred her to spend more of the money donated to her to help the poor on helping the poor, and less on funding missionary work, but some people believe bringing Jesus to people who already have their own beliefs is a good work, so there you have it.
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12-09-2013 , 08:40 PM
mother theresa was a **** tease
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12-09-2013 , 08:42 PM
Jesus also just left Chicago. He's going to miss a good football game.
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12-09-2013 , 09:12 PM
I pick Siddhārtha Gautama also known as The Buddha
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12-09-2013 , 09:13 PM
Sniped, you bitch!
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