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There's too much WW in POG There's too much WW in POG

04-04-2012 , 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by soah
Votes have no impact on the game until they are final. Until then, they are only +EV or -EV to the extent that they reflect and expand upon the thoughts of the person casting the vote. The only argument that can be made that self-voting is -EV is that it makes it more difficult to keep track of who each person would like to lynch. However, there are many other behaviors other than self-voting which also meet this description, and no one ever talks about them at all.
It seems like you're less arguing against policy lynching selfvoters and more just arguing in favor of policy lynching other bad habits players have.

But fwiw, I disagree on the above point. I think my points have been made at length though; I guess we'll just have to disagree about this (and probably lots of other things, lol)
04-04-2012 , 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by soah
Votes have no impact on the game until they are final. Until then, they are only +EV or -EV to the extent that they reflect and expand upon the thoughts of the person casting the vote. The only argument that can be made that self-voting is -EV is that it makes it more difficult to keep track of who each person would like to lynch. However, there are many other behaviors other than self-voting which also meet this description, and no one ever talks about them at all.



You can't ever be sure they are both villagers. Even if you're sure they are both villagers, one of them is always going to be worth more than the other on the following day. When I'm in this spot, I vote off the player whose reads I disagree with more, who is less likely to have been peeked, who is less likely to put in good work the next day, etc.
What are the other behaviours?

I think im getting the vote thing now though.
04-04-2012 , 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan
suns an example

i believe sun has admitted he only selfvotes as a wolf

(if im remembering wrong i apologize)

and then sun will selfvote. and people wont vote him
I basically view it as another tool.

If you do x and people find that villagery then you do it as a wolf too.

If people dont find it villagery then you stop doing it.
04-04-2012 , 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsball8806
I'm confused as to what BASaint's point is. Do you really need that validation that SE is better than POG to the point that you post nonstop about how ****ty POGgers are?
that's a pretty silly claim to make when there isn't a single good SE ww player
04-04-2012 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsball8806
What was the situation?
F7. Seer died n1. One wolf left. Lots of people who I think are villagers have wanted me dead since d1/d2. They are really sure I'm a wolf and not going to change their minds.

I am the sole focus of attention. I say OK, let's stop talking about me because that isn't helping. Lynch me today and I'll do a review of every player. So I do detailed reviews of every player. There's a couple of players I'm real sure are villagers that other players want to lynch. My reviews can help them, but I need to be dead first.

If I wiggle out of this, the people who suspect me will think it was all a trick to avoid a lynch and I go back to being the focus of attention. When a villager really wants you dead, you die. Not being resolved can be bad for your team.

My pick for the wolf was esse. Esse was not the wolf. But when he saw me self-vote with 6 minutes left he woke up and realized that actually he had a problem. So he voted my #2 wolf who was lynched as the wolf.
04-04-2012 , 12:30 AM
Another example of self-vote.
Mishmash
Less than 15 mins till end of day

Player A - full-night villa vig
Player B - vanilla who had a one-time peak and peaked Player A- village vig

Player A made some contribution but has been UTR most of the time in the game - popped in this day and said blah blah player B is prolly a wolf but I wont be around EOD.

Player B - defends player A when player A starts getting votes this causes suspicion - player B badly defends himself then 1 hour before night claims that he has peaked player A but will not disclose what his role is - village and wolves keep pushing both equally with a variety of reasons. Player B cannot get a third wagon going.

Player B decides to self-vote with only 15 mins to go with votes ~ =.

is that a clear +EV or -EV play?
Is that policy lynch?
If it was a policy lynch and Player B knew it was a policy lynch does that make his play +EV......should he/she face ongoing punishment or stigma in other games?
04-04-2012 , 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
that's a pretty silly claim to make when there isn't a single good SE ww player
seems like you missed trolling time by a few hours... so your attempt is denied..
04-04-2012 , 12:33 AM
mishmashes are like slot machines, i dont care about them

im talking about real werewolf
04-04-2012 , 12:34 AM
Self voting is a pretty easy topic.

Do a poll asking whether Poggers are for it or against it.

If they are for it, allow it in games as a strategy just like any other.

If they are against it, ban it from games on punishment of modkill, like we do with editing posts.

Likely grunching I've only read the last 15 posts.
04-04-2012 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlzBeALevel
Self voting is a pretty easy topic.

Do a poll asking whether Poggers are for it or against it.

If they are for it, allow it in games as a strategy just like any other.

If they are against it, ban it from games on punishment of modkill, like we do with editing posts.

Likely grunching I've only read the last 15 posts.
pog mods wont ban anything and they like the chaos of every gamemod having their own rules
04-04-2012 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlzBeALevel
Self voting is a pretty easy topic.

Do a poll asking whether Poggers are for it or against it.

If they are for it, allow it in games as a strategy just like any other.

If they are against it, ban it from games on punishment of modkill, like we do with editing posts.

Likely grunching I've only read the last 15 posts.
plaxico ITT..
04-04-2012 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BASaint
domer is not pog, he has way too much heart

(he was the guy that caused sun tzu to have a heart attack and self ban for 2 months after sewer rat game, right?)
that's not even close to something that happened
04-04-2012 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chips Ahoy
F7. Seer died n1. One wolf left. Lots of people who I think are villagers have wanted me dead since d1/d2. They are really sure I'm a wolf and not going to change their minds.

I am the sole focus of attention. I say OK, let's stop talking about me because that isn't helping. Lynch me today and I'll do a review of every player. So I do detailed reviews of every player. There's a couple of players I'm real sure are villagers that other players want to lynch. My reviews can help them, but I need to be dead first.

If I wiggle out of this, the people who suspect me will think it was all a trick to avoid a lynch and I go back to being the focus of attention. When a villager really wants you dead, you die. Not being resolved can be bad for your team.

My pick for the wolf was esse. Esse was not the wolf. But when he saw me self-vote with 6 minutes left he woke up and realized that actually he had a problem. So he voted my #2 wolf who was lynched as the wolf.
I have done exactly this a few times myself.

1 wolf left no seer
being a villa
but likely to be wagon all the way to f3 if I stay alive.
+
A pretty good feel that those pushing me are the villas.
04-04-2012 , 12:37 AM
if you left your selfvote on yourself all day, its fine imo
04-04-2012 , 12:39 AM
i dont understand why its not just included in other ways to try and trick people to not vote you.. like fake claiming or being emo butthurt and taking your ball and going home.. it's all the same to me
04-04-2012 , 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
that's a pretty silly claim to make when there isn't a single good SE ww player
Ahh the great sun tzu I've heard soo much about you. Unfortunately for me you're nocturnal so we haven't had a chance to speak.
04-04-2012 , 12:41 AM
I think far worse than self-voting.

Is claiming seer d1 with like 5 mins to go as a vanilla villa.

You might get me on a punishment bandwagon if it was for absurdly selfish play.
04-04-2012 , 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chim17
So.. Is Sun Tzu actually Dr Zen?
are you actually ******ed?
04-04-2012 , 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chim17
really? lol

Dr Zen was the douchiest person on 2p2.
so how could he be me?

I'm a nice guy
04-04-2012 , 12:45 AM
Biggerboat being on a banned list is perhaps the best example why a banned list is a bad idea.
04-04-2012 , 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggertheDog
Biggerboat being on a banned list is perhaps the best example why a banned list is a bad idea.
lol someone quote this list please
04-04-2012 , 12:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoraciousReader
Hey, in the event of my untimely death, just have Birdman ask me to ban him, and I am pretty sure I will manage to recross the Great Divide.




Also, hello wonderful poggians. It's reassuring to see that the more things change the more they stay the same.
04-04-2012 , 12:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggertheDog
I think far worse than self-voting.

Is claiming seer d1 with like 5 mins to go as a vanilla villa.

You might get me on a punishment bandwagon if it was for absurdly selfish play.
Not on day 1 but I have seen some players use this to good effect.

I can see how if they are wrong with their reads it could backfire terribly for the village though.
04-04-2012 , 12:49 AM
lol @ banning self-voting

some of you guys really are no fun
04-04-2012 , 12:50 AM
okay, it's 7 AM and I've also just tried discussing this with PBAL, I give up...

I am going to bed with the comfort of knowing that I am in agreement with soah, Chips and Digger, it seems.

      
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