Whatever Dwetzel is going on about wrt to VMF... ... it happened before ITAs.

Nothing to do with shot redirection.

So here are all the quotes around when Noze claimed VMF needed to die in order for the the death star to blow up

I have no idea why it's clearing for Dwetz. It seems like a wolf jumping on a villagers fake peek in order for

A) VMF to get killed
B) Noze to get killed once VMF flips villager

Like the quote of Dwetz being more important than Gad makes no sense at all. TN was the person needed to destroy the second Death Star as evidenced by her suiciding

There is no legit reason to think Dwetz had anything to do with it.

Also notice in that MQ how villagers Tom and Sim question what Noze means, when Dwetz jumps aboard and is all for shots on VMF.

Best guess is Dwetz/Disko/Jonny wins this.

I will vote any of those three but I feel Dwetz is the highest % wolf here.

i'll give more detailed, player-specific reads later but i think that last night's events should be fairly obvious - for the most part, wolves voted flytrap and villagers voted johnny.

on the johnny wagon, we now KNOW that the following players are villagers:

LKJ, TTT, Kaze

and SimDaniels and Grant are "cleared" for obvious reasons. let's just assume that simD and grant are not peeked godathers or anything crazy like that for the time being. throw them into the known villager pile for now.

so that's 5 people voting Johnny who we "know" are villagers plus dwetzel, (who is uncleared obviously).

***

now for the flytrap wagon, the only "officially cleared" person is JD.

the problem now is that we don't know which people on this wagon are the wolves. they might all be suspicious, but at the end of the day not everyone on here is going to be a wolf. there's also tchaz who unvoted but we can discuss that later.

so since we know that 95% of the time, either 1 or 0 wolves voted for johnny, it's my opinion that the most logical thing to do today is to vote jonny again. we could take a shot in the dark and hope we hit one of the people on the flytrap wagon + tchaz but if we know that wolves were voting flytrap the only explanation for why is that they were trying to save johnnyd. and this would line up with something i and many others brought up last night - that johnny is likely the omegawolf.

does this make sense or am i crazy?

i still really have a hard time understanding how anyone can think im a wolf but whatever.

a couple days ago i wanted dwetzel gone and even as of yesterday afternoon i wanted him lynched to the point where i voted without even intending to come back to the thread but i have a hard time imagining he would vote jonny last night at the last second if Dwetzel = W and Jonny = V. Basically, if jonny is V and we had V/V wagons, i would expect wetzel to just not rock the boat if he were a wolf. we KNOW flytrap is a villager now. so i think the more likely scenarios are Wetz = V, Jonny = V and Wetz = V, Jonny = W. I don;t think you ever see Wetz = W and Jonny = V.

grant and boner, do you agree with my long post above?

like in my mind it's hard to imagine a wolf team without jonny on it given how last night played and and all the information we have about the wagons this morning.

i guess the only scenario where wolves "controlled" the jonny lynch last night is if wetzel is a wolf and maybe one (or both) of JD and grant are also wolves but that scenario is so unlikely that i'm not even going to acknowledge it being a real possibility.

also, tchaz could be a wolf, though he hadn't been very low on my list beforehand if im being totally honest

yeah it was montecore. pretty sure the only other villager with voting powers was Noze although Noze's powers are effectively nil since he's going to opt to blow up the death star 99.999% of the time (ok its noze so maybe only 99%)

so to summarize what i posted above, i'm basically in the same place. obviously i'm taking my name off and putting your name on. i'm still skeptical of tchaz though.

Disko I don't believe your claim and the fact it conveniently disappeared the day we were going to test it does not sit well with me.

I can't think of one person lore wise that would have 3x voting power that would be on the good team.

only reason why this is still in my head is bc i dont really get the NKs. like i guess i can understand why JD isnt being killed (bc hes not playing) but simdaniels and grant have been fairly active and were clearer than the last few kills.

but prob not gonna both wasting time on it

IF Sim is a wolf this game I'd gladly lose to him.

Grant has seemed fairly wolfy the whole game but there were a few posts I've seen that seem like his villager game.

If one of the two are not really villagers I'd guess Grant, but I really feel dwetz/disko/jonny will win this.

yeah i can't say i blame you i would be skeptical too. i will say that it isn't uncommon for voting powers to last until end of game, though.

i guess in my mind, i just feel like it should be obvious that wolves always use their vote buyer on n1 to save the vig and that wolves having multiple vote+power roles and village having none is just so unlikely. but maybe its just the fact that i have perfect information w/r/t my role that makes me so sure about this stuff, idk

Disko, in your mind what have you done that's clearing?

I remember you getting some heat and claiming 3x voter, you voted aksdal, and you shot at Vagos in the one ITA session. Is there something else I'm missing?

i know absolutely nothing about lore but judging from the roles that flipped last night, this seems like a bad way to evaluate things.

The thing is, there is obv a backup vig so its not that big of a deal. Especially if someone like you can come in and claim 3x voter when you are in fact THE backup vig.

There is no guarantee that you are the reason that aksdal was the lynch. And since there was a backup vig the ITA nerfer was probably a more important role at the time.

Plus from what I remember the village had a vote manipulator flip and so did the wolves.

Disagree

Besides the star killer thing, but he was vanilla

i think it's a combination of everything.

everything about my role makes sense despite the fact that i can't easily verify it for anyone.

even ignoring my role and what you think of my powers, i did MQ/push aksdal an hour or so before the d1 lynch when redd was the counterwagon.

i was the first person to shoot vagos on a day where wolves are much more likely to be shooting euro.

i was also the first person to shoot vader in an ita session where everyone was shooting gadarene. im not sure why i would yolo a wolf there, especially considering i already had "villa cred" and gadarene was a perfectly acceptable shot. i would just never ever do that as a wolf.

i mean im not gonna keep arguing about my role; ive basically said everything that i needed to say. i know what i am and i feel like it's a waste of time since i know the wolves know what i am and there's a good chance i'm dead in the next day or so anyway.

The aksdal thing is meh for me. I was very against a redd wagon d1 and subsequent days.

Vagos thing is ok I suppose, but vader would probably be a dumb thing to do as a wolf.

However, vader essentially was a vanilla after d4 anyways so I dunno.

What do you think of JJB trying to clear Dwetz for going along with Noze? Do you see merit in it?

My top lynch today would be Dwetz, I thought wilverine was villagery for him but he didn't look as good as I remembered and part of me wanting to clear him was due to Duck wanted hiim dead.