another tell was your trying not to be peeked btw

but thats in hindsight of course

you are awesome

<3

that was the only thing I did that I thought was wolfy (the reaction to you implying you peeked me), but I realized it after like 1 post and recovered

it wasn't fake though, the reason it was wolfy is that I get tilted a lot easier as a wolf than a villager when I get suspected, I guess because it's tilting for people to be right for the wrong reasons. I had people calling me a wolf for "avoiding the thread" when I have no motivation to avoid the thread even if I think/know I'm peeked so I was already getting annoyed before I started posting.

the thing about not wanting to get peeked I don't think is a good tell, I JUST finished a game where getting peeked in that exact spot nearly cost us the game, and I got peeked in a similar spot in the last reunion game where everyone knew I was a villager but tokyo doesn't like me and was more interested in making sure I'd definitely lose as a wolf than making the peek that's most +EV for the village, and we lost.

during the last game, the ONLY reason I didn't argue when people were talking about peeking me with the seer's last peek was because I thought it would make me more likely to get peeked. But since that strategy didn't work, I think I may have gone ahead and argued it here as a villager too, I can't know for sure though. I really do believe though that peeking me is not the most +EV in most cases unless there's a lot of doubt about me, it's pretty rare for me to be a wolf and get that deep without some real suspicion on me; most of the time people make correct decisions about whether to lynch me in the second half of the game.

also, I don't even think I argued it too hard, I remember just making a post saying I don't think it's the best decision, then responded a few times to other people who were responding to me

Andy, what's the best way to say "across the street" and "next door" in Spanish? I don't trust people who give me the same answer to both questions. How am I to explain that something is across the street if they might think I mean that it's next door?

Oooh oooh oooh I know the answer to this one!!

across the street: en la otra acera

next door: en la puerta de al lado

yeah soah you are a sicko

well played, damn it

But we don't use "acera" here I don't think, and google results for "en la otra vereda" seem to show that phrase being used figuratively rather than literally :S

en la otra vereda can mean "homosexual, gay"

Cruzando la calle

"crossing the street"

cant go wrong with that one

hmm ok

how can you be villagery as a wolf?

I think about everything I'm thinking and doing when I'm a villager and internalize it.

A lot of stuff that I'm thinking about when I'm a villager never gets posted so then when I'm a wolf I can just pull from those leftover thoughts as well as recycle old material I've actually posted as a villager, mix and match and apply it to the current situation. And basic analysis is pretty easy since I've done it so many times before. Anything with simple tells, or voting analysis, or basic wolf interactions is pretty much impossible to screw up. Then you find some of those special thoughts to use to strengthen some of the reads, and then you fill in the gaps with "gut feeling" sort of stuff which is actually a villagery thing to do anyway.

I think that something I did a better job of in this game compared to previous wolf games was to always hold back some thoughts for later. Usually when I'm a wolf I'm so lazy that I have to post everything when I'm rereading just to get enough content posted. But if I'm posting all of my thoughts then that means a lot of them are pretty weak and if I get pressed to elaborate on stuff then I've got nothing left. It's much better to give just the basic info at first and hold some stuff in reserve so that you can chime in spontaneously with fresh thoughts when a discussion is taking place in the thread. This is much more reflective of how I'd play as a villager where I'm putting in a lot of work in reading stuff but mostly just talking about the conclusions and only showing my work when it becomes necessary. But this isn't something I started thinking about very much until the middle of the game. Also, if you're playing this way people may overestimate how many thoughts you actually have about the game, because they'll see you adding fresh information to discussions in real time and maybe they won't realize that what you just posted was the only thing you had left on the subject.

If I ever play as a wolf again that's where I plan to focus the most.

Also along the same lines, when choosing which stuff to hold back you should probably choose either the villagery stuff or the wolfy stuff. The common mistake as a wolf is to post analysis that is too balanced, pointing out all the villagery and the wolfy stuff and both ways to interpret all the posts. Better to just post a biased summary on purpose and keep all the other points in mind for the future, and post them anywhere from a few hours to a few days later. This way you look like you're reevaluating stuff rather than just waffling, and your somewhat biased summaries will look like a villager that's suffering confirmation bias. You just need to make sure you don't get too carried away and post a bunch of arguments that are plainly ridiculous.

Essentially, patience is key.

For example, I had a number of points about how wahoo could be a villager who faked seer, and I was waiting for wahoo to show up and actually do something before posting them. I didn't want to just come out and post that stuff at the start of that day because I didn't think it would make sense for me to be exploring that possibility at that time. I needed a catalyst to point me in the direction of wahoo being a villager before starting to muse about it.

Later, I started to make a case on derwipok which relied on the theory of wahoo being a villager. I still had those wahoo thoughts, but I still didn't want to bring them up because there was even less of a reason for wahoo to be a villager. If I'd gotten a catalyst, I would have posted my theory of the game with wahoo as a villager and then a set of other wolves whose behavior fits with wahoo being a villager.

I never got a catalyst. I was still sitting on it on the day wahoo got lynched, ready to use it if he ever did anything villagery, but he just gave up instead.

gg soahwolf

I feel like sponging you and reading all your posts closely is good for my village game even when you are a wolf :P

Paul Maholm got his first major league hit in that game. Good for him.

thats so badass soah

i like how if soah lives past day 2 everyone automatically accuses him of being a wolf

but he still had to be peeked wolf

truly soah is one of the few players that should be auto-lynched at midgame +1 or so.

If you have 7 mislynches for example, soah should be lynched the day after th 4th mislynch is made or close to that, on PRINCIPLE, and it doesnt matter at all how he's posting.

legendary wolf

btw soah, if we ever play again I'll be an advocate of this theory, I believe anything else is madness. You get to play to midgame+1 if it depends on me!

I don't really like ideas like that because they aren't fun. It's basically just giving up. Even if it could be proven that it was marginally better I'd still not be interested in halfway rule just for the sake of halfway rule

wellnamed, look into my eyes and tell me u would be able to lynch soah treating him under the normal standard

Imagine soah was pretty much anyone else.

Its the only way to deal with a genius, out of respect you just dont pitch to him. Its not fun but anything else is madness. He gets to play mid-game +1!

Or we can have a lot of fun and he wins by default every time he's a wolf

village would maximize EV by NEVER peeking soah, and always lynching him midgame.

Midgame in mislynches, btw, so if everything is going dandy, hitting wolf after wolf, soah doesnt run his credit down. That gives soah a chance to contribute as a villager.

I think it was possible for soah to get lynched without being peeked

not easy certainly, but it doesn't really matter

if anything the meta corrects for wolf-soah being really good in that he's very likely to be peeked pretty often, which is annoying enough without adding to it by halfway ruling

that's one reason to have seers

we agree to disagree WN, you are epic too, you need to be lynched by default too, probably. I can see why you'd argue against this.

Atak on the other hand, he poses no threat

xD

part of the reason I disagree is that when I'm wolfing I already feel a lot of pressure, namely the pressure is to kill the seer early, because I'm fairly likely to get peeked if the seers live long enough, and I'm also fairly likely to get heat in the mid-late game if I'm alive and not cleared by some other factors.

Part of that is just people doing something like the "halfway rule" without necessarily making it pure policy. I'm fine with that. It's fine for people to have higher or lower standards for clearing different people. But if every single game I played I knew that everyone was going to vote me in mid-game without even thinking about it if I was still alive and unpeeked I'd probably stop playing. Where's the fun in that?

And I don't think it's really likely to be that much better than what people do now

Yeah WN I agree it sucks not to get pitched to, but you are too good.

I have to deal with being NK'ed as a villager before endgame pretty much always, it's fine, I'm a pretty crazy spazz-villa that can stir up the pot goot. I accept it.

Relinquish all hope and give in to me WN!!! hahah gg btw, u got nk'ed earliest poss. opp. I'd envy you if I hadn't been nk'ed earlier.