ah. that's something i had not considered - whether the player's astute enough to 3bet small enough so the shove is double.

20 from me
5+5 from sb/bb

30 total

btn can pot for 20+20+30=70 total, the shove to 110 isn't 2x so if BTN potted as i understand the rules there can be no 4 bet after his shove

something I hadn't considered for sure. Generally speaking in a typical setting the sizing still indicates a middle rundown/2pair ish hand to me, but I could be wrong. Him small 3betting with plans to 4/5bet seems less likely given there's no guarantee anyone's going to repop it. I don't think we should worry about that until we face it since it's unlikely IMO

it's definitely overall weaker

i've had hands where i've asked how much the short stack has and made it something accordingly

yeah not against just aa but most people are wider anyway

plus when you get to multiway all ins it tends to get better since you are drawing to the nuts and others are going to be getting it in with worse run downs mostly

agree

there are times when i've definitely wanted to do this but didn't in fear of tipping my intent

at live casinos are dealers obligated to tell you the size of the pot/others' stacks if prompted?

6m plo, utg opens 100bb deep, 1 caller, I flat AsKQ9, bb calls w 40-50bb.

Flop is KsQ2s, ck ck ck, I pot, bb flats, utg check raises, 1 fold. I...

In plo, they are obligated to count the pot for you. Not sure about opponents stacks.

For nlh, no cardroom will count the pot. Just what's in view, but they'll rustle the chips around for you if you ask. Some places will count opponents stacks, but most use the plain view rule.

3 bet assuming you are on the button

Without reads I'm more inclined to think utg would pot out with combo draws and b/f two pair hands. I think I fold but I'd like to hear what everyone else says

Ty iver

you never need to count chips you have not yet put in the pot, even tournaments fairly certain

i bet smaller on the flop 3/4th pot, still thinking about what i'd do on the flop

i'm assuming we have no read on utg

did everyone pot it leading up to this point? utg probably has top two as well as his most likely hand, something like kqj9 that you'd rather check raise then bet call off, probably no spade draw on average

guess i'd go with my soul read and maybe call now and call or shove most turns if checked to

could also have like tj or tj9 with spades or aqtj and weird combo draws of that kind

feels like we probably have odds to get it in

i'm sure you ran into top set!

i'm thinking about if we go with it if it's better to shove or call, probably not a huge difference and depends on stack sizes

Those spade wrap ish hands don't seem like a typical c/ring hands imo

Vs Top set and second set & fd, obv. Lol blockers.

Being new to plo I've been routinely tossing 2p, but I wondered to what extent to give weight to the blockers.

if i was the check raiser my range would be like i said, qjt9 with spades, kqj9 maybe with spades tho i would be more likely to lead call it off with that hand, things of that nature

it's probably really a fold but i want to try to rationalize not folding

next time you should have the spade draw

Right. I think the general mentality for premium ish draws would be to lead and hope to take it there imo

I just don't think people are c/ring two pairs on this board, especially with a potter and a cold caller. B/f seems far more likely.

A lot hinges on reads though IMO

im running so effing bad. i was shortstacked cuz i lost all my money. i had $490 in the BB with QQ. some guy early raised to 40 and got 4 callers. ldo i jam, and the raiser folds. one of the callers and tanks and finally calls. another one of the callers calls.

flop is T98. one guy has TT and the other guy has 99, and someone folded QJ. i have fricking QQ in the perfect time and i can't even come in third.

i go home busted and disgusted

what were the turn and river

two bs undercards. i'm running so bad i have to move down to 3/5

get a box at the casino

short stack 5/10

i did. i lost it all

i've been thinking about it, and i think 3/5 is more profitable for me at my skill level. i'm almost always the best player at the table. most of the time at 5/10 maybe half the table is better than me, or at least i don't have much of an edge on them.

i'll still play 5/10 when the game is good.

you can def auto-pilot 3-5 and need think a lot more at 5-10

yeah digger made a good post about it 60 posts ago. basically he just said you need to pay attention and always be thinking about the stuff you're supposed to be thinking about, and not just autopiloting... which i was doing