could abortion really be outlawed in the usa? i used to never think so, but now... man... idk... wow. so crazy.

i kinda think it couldn't be. even if the supreme court outlawed it, i think there would be such resistance that it couldn't last. doctors would still do them, and people would still get them, openly violating the law in protest. i mean places like sf and la, just no way man. it might be another story in like arkansas

Supreme court would just rule it able to be outlawed, unless they go the legislating from the bench route.

Hah! I super relate to this! Whenever I get depressed about American politics I just trot on over to Tory twitter and goddamn do I feel better!!

Seen a few posts that religious sects where whatever about abortion for a while but it was used explicitly as a galvanizing issue, maybe around the 1950s.

Also apparently lots of treatments sold in the 1800s but at some point doctors wanted to be the ones making the money so they got banned.

Hope Hicks, one of Trump's top aides just tested positive for Covid. I'm rolling on the floor if Trump gave it to Biden.

currently Roe v. Wade holds that constitution prohibits federal or state laws that would outlaw abortion. Many conservative states (and the federal government when the GOP has adequate control over it) will do everything in their power to effectively outlaw by limiting access to it. They will also pass bizarre stuff like requiring parental consent, require that an ultrasound be done, etc. Basically any hurdles they can to make it harder for someone to get an abortion.

Man of these laws get challenged at the state and federal level and get struck down. But many are never challenged. And when they are struck down they keep popping back up like whack a mole. Many are passed knowing they will not hold up but of course it takes time and money to get it overturned which is the strategy used by conservatives.

One example is the Mexico City rule which blocks federal funding to NGOs that provide abortion counseling or referrals--it is done by presidential decree and gets turned on and off like clockwork depending on whether a Republican or Democrat holds the Presidency.

If Roe v Wade were overturned what it would mean is that US States (or even the Federal government) could legally outlaw abortion directly. Most conservative states would do that pretty quickly, and it would be a constant battle in purple states and at the federal level as the GOP could more aggressively outlaw it or create more obstacles that would be harder or impossible to fight.

I regret that abortions are necessary and think that we as a society should be trying to eliminate the factors that lead to people needing to get abortions. Outlawing them is absolutely, positively not the way to do that, though. Time and time again outlawing abortion has had, at best, a minimal affect on the rate of abortion. Instead, it usually just increases the number of unsafe abortions that happen while having insignificant impact on the total abortion rate.

If people actually cared about lowing the rate of abortion they would make birth control readily available to anyone who wants it, make healthcare universal and the costs shared by society as a whole so that anyone who wants to have a baby has access to all the care they need free of individual charge, create free nationwide childcare, mandate significant paid family leave (minimum 12 weeks, but I think a year is more appropriate), etc.

But conservatives don't actually care about lowering rates of abortion. The abortion issues is a wedge issue that GOP politicians can use to rile up their base. The reason why the base cares about it is, fundamentally, a hallmark of a misogynistic society that wants to control women and the means of reproduction.

Conditions for women, especially poor women, will get worse, so much so that eventually abortion would need to be legalized again.

This is the trend: Bad things happen, activism and advocacy do their thing, we make laws to ease suffering, suffering eases, activism and advocacy become less motivated, rights slowly get stripped away, the balance shifts back and forth on and on. That is what we in the biz call: a dysfunctional system. Dystopian, fearful, dark. Systems can change, be made more efficient, made more effective, but a dysfunctional system will never function to create sustainable good (utopia).

Does anyone know if there are discrete points between dystopian and utopian structures? It seems to me that a system can only work towards one or the other, not much of an in between in terms of trajectory and overarching direction.

i was like "wow bsball doesn't usually write such long posts. and i didn't think he would pick abortion as the topic to write so long about.... oh wait... nevermind. i get it now"

but yeah, thanks for the info birdman. i didn't realize that if roe v wade was overturned it would be up to states

Lol, I thought that was bsball even after reading that post, think the most relevant case wrt abortion is Casey, maybe lawdawg ianaww knows.

bob loblaw’s law blog drops law bomb

Pwnsall recently re-exhibiting the fact he’s not just a troll but an actual shitty person.

Normally I can tell which post is the one that makes me "shitty" but this time it eludes me.

It was the one where you “diagnosed” me with postpartum depression. Do you have any idea how many women actually suffer from that each year? You’re a bad person. And just when I was beginning to believe you’re a harmless idiot troll...

I mean, you’re obviously a poster that is typically ignored, and for good reason, but real women actually hurt and die from that every year. It’s not a topic you should be casually tossing out for fun.

Anyway, enjoy, you misogynist premature balding squat little toad.

Lol, why would I have been trolling about that? I obviously don't think I can internet diagnose someone but I agree it's a thing that's serious and to be wary of.

Kinda hit the right pathways mentally of what seemed like it could be, still probably unlikely but would have felt more remiss saying nothing. I did try to Google if it was theoretically possible before posting, I saw most women get it first few weeks but couldn't quite figure out how long it would last.

Sorry if it came off as a troll or you felt violated in a personal life infringement way. Also fwiw the phd ***** ****** line or whatever it was is one of the few things I've ever felt bad about long term, so sorry about that as well.

Trump has COVID

sounds about right

trump *says* he has covid. he's not the most trustworthy guy

Well, I doubt he wants to admit to having something that he portrayed as a hoax at one time. And, has been accused of not taking seriously. Also, his position on masks was pretty clear. He even made fun of Biden for wearing one .

Lastly, he can't actively campaign for 10-14 days, and there is no way he would want that.

Biden may come out and state that he wont campaign while Trump is sidelined, or will reduce his campaign significantly. That would irk Trump, because it makes Biden the good guy and portrays Trump as the weak guy who people are agreeing not to kick when he is down.

Even assuming D and M both come of this healthy, getting COVID has to be the worst thing for his re-election. If one of them gets really sick, Trump might even bow out to avoid defeat, claiming he needs to focus on family and health. That is if he saw no path to victory...

who knows... interesting times ahead..

dems want trump to run. repubs want trump to drop out


also, trump doesn't always make the best decisions. if it's stupid for him to lie and say he has covid, that isn't a good argument that he wouldn't do it.

I hope he dies, but given that this is 2020 this will not happen.

I would not put it past him to fake getting it so he can claim it's nbd

quite the black Swan event