POG Politics Thread Version 3 - Page 118 - Puzzles and Other Games Forum

So it’s offensive to Jewish people unless a Jewish person disagrees with you, then they’re brainwashed. Got it. I guarantee she knows more about this than you. Thanks for the thoughts, though. Back to ignore. Look forward to discussing this with you if you have thoughts, Mets.

Not brainwashed, but i dont think anyone would naturally compare trump to hitler or this goverment to the 3rd reich if the media didnt exist

the holocaust was a pretty serious event where millions of people were put to their death.. so ya. id say maybe she spent too much time thinking about the holocaust and reached for the comparissons out of some dislike for orange man

Quote

11-03-2020 , 07:10 PM

#2927

chim17

Snowboarding concerts and punk music

Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 56,128

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

you

I’ve actually been careful not to, while still amplifying her views. Thanks, though. I do agree it’s best I don’t.

I don’t agree I can’t say he has fascist tendencies, but that’s a different chat.

Thanks.

Quote

11-03-2020 , 07:12 PM

#2928

confirmedtroll

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 22,949

lots of comparissons ITT

Quote

11-03-2020 , 07:14 PM

#2929

chim17

Snowboarding concerts and punk music

Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 56,128

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

chim as i said, i respect her right to feel that way and respect her opinion

what i wouldnt accept is her thinking im a disgrace to jews if i support trump

just as black people shouldnt disparage black people that suport trump

Her moms a huge Trump fan so def doesn’t think that.

Thanks for your views.

Quote

11-03-2020 , 07:20 PM

#2930

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Important to note, fascism and Nazism are similar but not the same. There are and have been plenty of fascists outside of Hitler and the Third Reich who /arewere not Nazis. Simply calling Trump a fascist does not mean he is being compared to Hitler.

Also, a better discussion of fascism and its definition can be found here, imo:

https://www.prisoncensorship.info/ar...ascismdef.html

Quote:

1. Fascism is "the open terroristic dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic, and most imperialist elements of finance capital."(Dimitrov, p. 2)

2. Fascism is an extreme measure taken by the bourgeoisie to forestall proletarian revolution; it "expresses the weakness of the bourgeoisie itself, afraid of the realization of a united struggle of the working class, afraid of revolution, and no longer in a position to maintain its dictatorship over the masses by the old means of bourgeois democracy and parliamentarianism."(Dimitrov, p. 2) "The conditions [which give rise to fascism] are: instability of capitalist relationships; the existence of considerable declassed social elements, the pauperization of broad strata of the urban petit-bourgeoisie and of the intelligentsia; discontent among the rural petit-bourgeoisie, and finally, the constant menace of mass proletarian action."(Dutt, p. 88)

3. Fascism concentrates each imperialist bloc into a single economic unit while at the same time increasing between-bloc antagonisms and advancing towards war. (Dutt, pp. 72-73)

4. Fascism promotes chauvinist demagogy (e.g. reducing the problem of parasitism to the "Jewish Question") and anti-science obscuratinism (e.g. Dutt, pp. 54-58 or any Jerry Bruckheimer film). Fascism hypocritically adopts Marxist critiques of capitalism, and bourgeois democracy.(Dimitrov, pp. 6-7) It does this to "utilize the discontent of the petit-bourgeois, the intellectual, and other strata in society."(Dutt, p. 89)

5. Still, fascism may not completely dispense with bourgeois democracy--e.g. banning revolutionary parties or even competing bourgeois parties--depending on "historical, social and economic conditions."(Dimitrov, p. 4)

6. Both bourgeois democracy and fascism are forms of the class dictatorship of finance or comprador capital (in imperialist and semi-colonial countries, respectively)--that is, both use organized violence to maintain the class rule of the oppressors over the oppressed. Hence, any differentiation between bourgeois democracy and fascism is a strategic or tactical matter--not a matter of Marxist principles.

7. The difference between bourgeois democracy and fascism is a matter of quantitative changes leading to a qualitative change. The qualitative differences are relevant to us in terms of their effect on our policies towards non-proletarian classes. "The accession to power of fascism is not an ordinary succession of one bourgeois government by another, but a substitution of one state form of class domination of the bourgeoisie--bourgeois democracy--by another form--open terrorist dictatorship. It would be a serious mistake to ignore this distinction, a mistake liable to prevent the revolutionary proletariat from mobilizing the widest strata of the working people of town and country for the struggle against the menace of seizure of power by the fascists, and from taking advantage of the contradictions which exist in the camp of the bourgeoisie itself. But it is a mistake, no less serious and dangerous, to underrate the importance of, for the establishment of fascist dictatorship, of the reactionary measures of the bourgeoisie at present increasingly developing in bourgeois-democratic countries--measures which suppress the democratic liberties of the working people, falsify and curtail the rights of parliament and intensify the repression of the revolutionary movement."(Dimitrov, pp. 4-5; emphasis in the original)

8. Social democrats of the Second International ilk paved the way for the fascists by closely identifying itself with the national interests of their respective imperialists states, denying internationalism, placing their faith in bourgeois democracy and scuttling the extra-legal struggle for state power. Hence they earned the epithet "social fascists."

9. The COMINTERN United Front policy was based on its assessment that "[f]ascism is the most viscious enemy of the working class and working people, who constitute nine-tenths of the people in [the] fascist [and proto-fascist] countries."(p. 12) Furthermore, the working class in these countries constituted a unified proletariat. Fascism was eroding the material basis for differences between communist and social-democratic workers.(E.g. Dimitrov, pp. 24-34)

10. The labor aristocracy is majority in the imperialist countries and not proletarian. The fact that the imperialist allow the labor aristocracy bourgeois democracy is an example of the alliance between these two classes and consistent with the following observation from Dutt: "Fascism strives to establish political and organizational unity among all the governing classes of capitalist society (the bankers, the big industrialists and the agrarians), and to establish their undivided, open and consistent dictatorship."(Dutt, p 89; emphasis added)

Quote

11-03-2020 , 07:21 PM

#2931

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Point being, fascism does not inherently involve discrimination or violence against Jewish people--even though the most infamous fascist project had that as its cornerstone.

Quote

11-03-2020 , 07:27 PM

#2932

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 58,805

Welcome back, Birdman.

Quote

11-03-2020 , 07:38 PM

#2933

metsandfinsfan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 159,416

Glad to see you back

Quote

11-03-2020 , 07:42 PM

#2934

filthyvermin

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 60,202

Quote

11-03-2020 , 07:43 PM

#2935

filthyvermin

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 60,202

best thing that's happened today is birdman posting in the thread

Quote

11-03-2020 , 07:45 PM

#2936

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

it might just be an election night special

now that I have filthy's phone number I can just text him instead of posting here

Quote

11-03-2020 , 07:57 PM

#2937

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,687

4 was an intriguing point. Am I the baddy!?!?

Haven't gotten through them all.

Quote

11-03-2020 , 08:00 PM

#2938

Mark_K

Fast Food Value KING

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,274

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebooger

- Think that CNN is actually a left wing operation.

Perhaps. But I feel during the Trump administration years, they moved towards the left.

I remember back in 2016, CNN would air all of Trump's rallies. In 2020, they would at best air brief snippets while usually mocking him.

I assume you agree their evening program hosts Cuomo, Lemon and Cooper are all pretty hard left.

Quote

11-03-2020 , 08:07 PM

#2939

metsandfinsfan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 159,416

eyebooger

when CNN fact checked trump IN REAL TIME during the debate and did not fact check Joe Biden. actling like they arent a democrat operation is silly (if you mean they are not far far left then fine)

Quote

11-03-2020 , 08:11 PM

#2940

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

4 was an intriguing point. Am I the baddy!?!?

Haven't gotten through them all.

Yes I've pointed it out before.

Tucker Carlson is a great example of point 4.

Quote

11-03-2020 , 08:12 PM

#2941

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark_K

Airing or not airing Trump rallies is not indicative of a political ideology.

Quote

11-03-2020 , 08:13 PM

#2942

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

Democrats are not left wing. They are not left leaning.

Quote

11-03-2020 , 08:16 PM

#2943

ArcticKnight

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 20,874

Based on what is happening in Florida, this looks really good for Biden. County vrs county 2016 vrs 2020 looking good..

Quote

11-03-2020 , 08:20 PM

#2944

Slighted

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 16,820

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

Based on what is happening in Florida, this looks really good for Biden. County vrs county 2016 vrs 2020 looking good..

miami not looking good. biden outperforming clinton everywhere else though it seems. miami looks like he might be down up to 10% from what clinton got.

Quote

11-03-2020 , 08:21 PM

#2945

DonkDonkDonkDonk

Goose

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 40,149

Im watching bbc and every person theyre interviewing is republican

Quote

11-03-2020 , 08:22 PM

#2946

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 58,805

Florida looks really bad.

Quote

11-03-2020 , 08:25 PM

#2947

filthyvermin

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 60,202

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark_K

come on mark. cnn is owned by billionaires. billionaires are not left. cnn and all its mouth pieces hoorahed every war. they called trump presidential when he was shooting rockets into the middle east. they all support police and prisons and american imperialism