POG Politics Thread - Page 2786 - Puzzles and Other Games Forum

Oh right, so the vast corporations that control so much of the economic activity and trade in this world are trying to follow socialist doctrine but somehow in practice the whole workers' ownership thing just isn't going well?

05-04-2017 , 12:02 PM

#69628

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey Banana

I mean, it's cute that you share IANAWW's misconception that socialism is somehow synonymous with government but you can't just describe everything a government does as "socialism" because you simply render the word useless. You end up in the ridiculous position of claiming that a man who strengthened the insurance model of health provision is a "socialist" or that any redistribution of income is "socialist" or that building roads is "socialist". Socialists may redistribute income and they may build roads but so might a lot of people.

My use of the term does not render it useless, of course, even if you aren't happy with the use that it retains. It does start to fade once the public/private distinction is sufficiently scrutinized, but nobody wants to deal with that so okay. We are left with a spectrum from anarchy to socialism, in terms of political mechanism, with certain policies being more socialistic than others.

Why aren't you contented with the phrase "worker socialism" for what I expect you to intend?

05-04-2017 , 12:27 PM

#69629

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey Banana

Definitely not what i am saying

05-04-2017 , 12:31 PM

#69630

iamnotawerewolf

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See, right here, you guys are quibbling semantics without meaningfully communicating with each other.

Both of you are using "socialism" in disparately narrow ways, and neither of you will get anywhere but frustrated.

Luckbox, you are not an anarchist, right? So some social economic control is appropriate?

05-04-2017 , 12:34 PM

#69631

iamnotawerewolf

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Luckbox's obsession with geographic scale is an issue entirely separate from the propriety of interpersonal autonomy per se.

So Luckbox, I would say, has a problem with "global socialism".

05-04-2017 , 02:18 PM

#69632

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

Luckbox, you are not an anarchist, right? So some social economic control is appropriate?

Believing in the rule of law vs some form of socio economic control seem to be two different things entirely. I think it's possible to not be an anarchist and also not believe in control.

05-04-2017 , 02:37 PM

#69633

DarkMagus

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What do you say to the proposition that lack of economic control can lead to companies becoming so rich and powerful they can buy the government, and then enact whatever controls they want to protect and increase their power?

05-04-2017 , 02:43 PM

#69634

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,420

Welp. Here's to hoping I never lose my job

05-04-2017 , 03:19 PM

#69635

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkMagus

05-04-2017 , 03:19 PM

#69636

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Welp. Here's to hoping I never lose my job

lead a good life and you won't have preexisting conditions

05-04-2017 , 03:25 PM

#69637

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by amplify

lead a good life and you won't have preexisting conditions

Mine is genetic. Guess my genes didn't pull themselves up by their bootstraps enough

05-04-2017 , 03:31 PM

#69638

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,668

Everything is genetic.

05-04-2017 , 03:31 PM

#69639

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

I think it's possible to not be an anarchist and also not believe in control.

What would it mean to be an anarchist at that point?

05-04-2017 , 05:02 PM

#69640

Monkey Banana

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

No meaningful spectrum runs from anarchy to socialism.

Socialism IS "worker socialism". There isn't any other socialism.

05-04-2017 , 05:03 PM

#69641

Monkey Banana

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Definitely not what i am saying

Then you are not talking about socialism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Believing in the rule of law vs some form of socio economic control seem to be two different things entirely. I think it's possible to not be an anarchist and also not believe in control.

They are not "versus" each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

What would it mean to be an anarchist at that point?

Apparently, whatever the hell you want it to mean.

05-04-2017 , 05:08 PM

#69642

Monkey Banana

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You both seem confused into thinking that socialism means "more tightly controlled by government", because the right wing calls anything run by the government "socialist".

05-04-2017 , 06:20 PM

#69643

amplify

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Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

Welp. Here's to hoping I never lose my job

ObamaCare repeal bill could affect employer health plans

If a large employer chose the benefit requirements in a waiver state, they could be able to impose lifetime limits on healthcare costs and eliminate out-of-pocket caps from their plans, for example.

“It’s huge,” Andy Slavitt, former acting administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services under former President Barack Obama, told the Journal. “They’re creating a backdoor way to gut employer plans, too.”

05-04-2017 , 06:35 PM

#69644

filthyvermin

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maybe the human race needs to be culled.

ignore me. im having another nervous breakdown.

05-04-2017 , 06:38 PM

#69645

LordJvK

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey Banana

Socialists do not seek public control of the economy as such.

05-04-2017 , 06:41 PM

#69646

VarianceMinefield

banned

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05-04-2017 , 08:01 PM

#69647

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by amplify

I work for a company that is pretty considerably left and conscious of their community standing. They've never ****ed their employees in the past and I don't expect them to start now

05-04-2017 , 08:25 PM

#69648

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,257

I work for a company in a declining market that ****ed 70% of the IT department in the ass last year so anything goes.

05-04-2017 , 10:14 PM

#69649

Sun Tzu

laconic

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 84,770

pretend I posted the Humpty Dumpty thing again

05-05-2017 , 05:58 AM

#69650

Monkey Banana

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Quote:

Originally Posted by VarianceMinefield

It's definitely time to celebrate. The House just voted to strip 24 million people of their healthcare and give a trillion-dollar tax cut to the top 2%.

Yay! Down with socialism! Let these people die in the streets.

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