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10-21-2009 , 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K
However, good luck finding your ball after hitting it for a mile...
I don't think it would be any harder for me than it is now.
10-21-2009 , 02:37 PM
I used to play quite a bit in the snow (why did I live in Ohio for 36 years?) and that has to be way harder than finding your ball on the moon.
10-21-2009 , 02:54 PM
Gun talk here pls. I'll take the "regulate guns" side for the fun of it.

- Regulating guns doesn't hinder criminals from getting them
- Regulating guns doesn't hinder good citizens either
- It provides enough of an annoyance to make people think about alternatives
- Europe and Canada vs US of A; focusing on integration of problem groups of all kinds trumps gun ownership when it comes to peace. Generally a more peacefull mindset/climate is reached if there's less guns around
10-21-2009 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
- Regulating guns doesn't hinder criminals from getting them
- Regulating guns doesn't hinder good citizens either
Part 2 is wrong, especially in Canada. it does hinder good citizens, and turns them in to criminals if they (for example) won't submit to random inspections of their home after purchasing a gun.

Quote:
- Europe and Canada vs US of A; focusing on integration of problem groups of all kinds trumps gun ownership when it comes to peace. Generally a more peacefull mindset/climate is reached if there's less guns around
No reason these things can't happen with legal gun ownership as well.
10-21-2009 , 03:12 PM
There's a George Carlin routine where he argues you don't have any rights. Rights are imaginary, we made them up. They can be taken away for any number of reasons. All we have under government are temporary privileges. The idea that some piece of paper in a drawer guarantees your rights is pleasant propaganda but patently ridiculous, especially so since the body responsible for enforcing the document is the same body looking to subvert it.
10-21-2009 , 03:31 PM
Have you noticed that the most militarily advanced country in the history of the world, a military that can hit a goat in the nuts from 100 miles away through satellite triangulation, is continually embroiled in guerrilla warfare in third-world countries with no hope or condition of victory?

Why is that, do you think?
10-21-2009 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Part 2 is wrong, especially in Canada. it does hinder good citizens, and turns them in to criminals if they (for example) won't submit to random inspections of their home after purchasing a gun.
Then change the regulation laws. Just require some background check, have a little waiting period and require to retake a certificate.
Shooting range practice requirement can also be added.

The benefit of making it slightly harder for certain kinds of criminals to get guns legally and a general mindset fo "let's finde less harmfull ways than guns to settle our problems" certainly outweight this slight inconvenience.
Quote:
No reason these things can't happen with legal gun ownership as well.
But they don't look at the statistics. Legal gun ownership generally creates a more violent mindset in society.
10-21-2009 , 03:40 PM
Anyone who wouldn't submit to a perfectly reasonable and polite request to search their home is obviously unpatriotic and deserving of whatever prison sentence they receive.
10-21-2009 , 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amplify
There's a George Carlin routine where he argues you don't have any rights. Rights are imaginary, we made them up. They can be taken away for any number of reasons. All we have under government are temporary privileges. The idea that some piece of paper in a drawer guarantees your rights is pleasant propaganda but patently ridiculous, especially so since the body responsible for enforcing the document is the same body looking to subvert it.
I actually wrote a paper in a college ethics class saying pretty much exactly this. (well except for the govt subversion part). I got like a B+. The next paper I wrote was a five page paper where I mindlessly recited the pros and cons of gun control three hours before the paper was due after staying up all night drinking and playing cards. I got an A on that.

Having learned my lesson, I didnt put much of any effort into that class for the rest of the semester.
10-21-2009 , 03:48 PM
And so the purpose of education was fulfilled.
10-21-2009 , 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amplify
There's a George Carlin routine where he argues you don't have any rights. Rights are imaginary, we made them up. They can be taken away for any number of reasons. All we have under government are temporary privileges. The idea that some piece of paper in a drawer guarantees your rights is pleasant propaganda but patently ridiculous, especially so since the body responsible for enforcing the document is the same body looking to subvert it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AriesRam
I actually wrote a paper in a college ethics class saying pretty much exactly this. (well except for the govt subversion part). I got like a B+. The next paper I wrote was a five page paper where I mindlessly recited the pros and cons of gun control three hours before the paper was due after staying up all night drinking and playing cards. I got an A on that.

Having learned my lesson, I didnt put much of any effort into that class for the rest of the semester.
If you think about human rights (and here i'm talking about the international scene, but whatever) for any length of time, i see no way that you can come to a conclusion other than that they are totally fictitious and an act of international imperialism through the back door. However, this is something that the major media/political discourses totally fail to even approach, and that if you talked about, you would get blank looks at best and quite likely would be called nazi.
10-21-2009 , 03:52 PM
and yet amp is looking to put his hard earned dollars to receive more of this education
10-21-2009 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Anyone who wouldn't submit to a perfectly reasonable and polite request to search their home is obviously unpatriotic and deserving of whatever prison sentence they receive.
I already proposed a way were this is absolutely irrelevant.
10-21-2009 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
But they don't look at the statistics. Legal gun ownership generally creates a more violent mindset in society.
Correlation != causation
10-21-2009 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverfish1
and yet amp is looking to put his hard earned dollars to receive more of this education
was, it's not going to happen. but I never thought it was anything other than lifestyle extortion. nice ad hominem argument though.
10-21-2009 , 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amplify
And so the purpose of education was fulfilled.
If the purpose is to cash the tuition checks, allow me an accepted excuse to use/borderline abuse alcohol/drugs (mostly booze), and at the end give me a piece of paper stating that I didnt quite manage to use/abuse TOO many drugs and that the checks didnt bounce,

then I agree.
10-21-2009 , 04:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AriesRam
If the purpose is to cash the tuition checks, allow me an accepted excuse to use/borderline abuse alcohol/drugs (mostly booze), and at the end give me a piece of paper stating that I didnt quite manage to use/abuse TOO many drugs and that the checks didnt bounce,

then I agree.
that, and to force to submit to society's yoke.
10-21-2009 , 04:39 PM
Hey, the club has dues. Ya gotta pay the dues...
10-21-2009 , 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokiri
that, and to force to submit to society's yoke.
Meh, my life has proven that I am more than willing to submit, I dont think I needed school to beat that into me. I really think its about the $$$.
10-21-2009 , 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K
Hey, the club has dues. Ya gotta pay the dues...
I have no problem with this whatsoever, I merely object to the club masquerading as education. As Will Hunting will tell you, if you just want education, get a bus pass and a library card.
10-21-2009 , 05:28 PM
Quote:
Correlation != causation
Ok so we can establish first that statistics are useless for any political analysis?

Quote:
I have no problem with this whatsoever, I merely object to the club masquerading as education. As Will Hunting will tell you, if you just want education, get a bus pass and a library card.
Are the bus system and libraries in the US private or government run?
10-21-2009 , 05:31 PM
Whew! I was momentarily blinded by the shine on the crowbar clowntable used there.
10-21-2009 , 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amplify
I have no problem with this whatsoever, I merely object to the club masquerading as education. As Will Hunting will tell you, if you just want education, get a bus pass and a library card.
I think you're taking a pretty narrow line here...

I can't speak for all majors but for Electrical Engineering: In school, I gained an absolute mountain of knowledge. A library would be hardpressed to provide that. It was easily worth every penny and probably worth 4 (or more) times what I had to pay.
10-21-2009 , 06:01 PM
The solution to the education problem for (state co-financed) institutions is fairly simple imo. Demand Open Access of all papers and materials published by any institution that receives any sort of tax funding; allow people to take exams for a fee without enrolling and award them the same sort of degree as people who enroll.
This should work fairly well for most things except some "hands on" university programs like medicin maybe. In other words, enrolling in any sort of school is just a shortcut for getting fed the information in a more accessible manner.

The interesting question is what you should deem a canon that shall be tested.

http://open-access.net/de_en/homepage/
10-21-2009 , 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K
I can't speak for all majors but for Electrical Engineering: In school, I gained an absolute mountain of knowledge. A library would be hardpressed to provide that. It was easily worth every penny and probably worth 4 (or more) times what I had to pay.
Yeah. Many fields and people are well served by the university system. It is a highly competitive environment after all. Universities also provide a place for successful alumni to donate excess wealth, and even good hard science sometimes occurs.

      
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