i think madoff was a definite potential flight risk.

I think if he wanted to run, he would have done it instead of standing up in front of the board of directors of his company and saying "our fund is a huge ponzi scheme", don't you?

EDIT: At least, I would consider that compelling enough to release him on bail, considering the standards. House arrest keeps him pretty safe from running away - that, and being incredibly recognizable anywhere he could run to.

Don't they take Madoff's passport? Or put a tracking bracelet on him?

His wife cashed out 15 million bucks 2 days before he was indicted.

That's traveling money, imo.

Hypothetical to the law talking guys here:

I invested in Madoff's scheme. I have a rare medical condition that requires a very expensive medication. I cant afford this mediaction b/c Madoff lost my $$. I die. Is Madoff at all criminally (or civilly, I guess) responsible?

And yet, he hung around.

He knew they were coming for him. He had his chance and didn't take it. Now he has no chance to get away, he's too recognizable.

The stuff I was saying before about the suicide was just me acting weird.

I do think that he could be responsible civilly for this though, for the suicides, I don't know.

I don't know why he didn'r run, he could have.

Now he's in his apartment because if he walks outside, he's getting hit by a bus.

no. While you were defrauded Madoff in no way forced you to invest in his Ponzi scheme. People should take more responsibility for their own actions. Would Madoff be criminally responsible for your death if you forgot to buy medicine because you were so excited by the amount of money you were "making" (pre- revealing ldo)?

Civilly- I have no idea. Given the lititious nature of the US I wouldn't be surprised if lawsuits were filed, but I really hope they aren't upheld. It sets a bad precedent.

yeah I am sure he's going to get sued by everyone who lost money in the scheme, but not because of the suicides.

Thanks. I didn't think he would be held criminally responsible, but I kinda sorta remember a "but-for" test from my Business Law course 15 years ago, and didn't know how far that could be stretched.

caveat: This is my best guess stemming from my understanding of the philosophy of law (and our legal system). I am not a criminal lawyer and thus couldn't give you a definitive answer (though afaik no one on POG is a criminal lawyer).

Thanks for clarifying. I was just about to run out and embezzle a huge amount of money, just cuz I couldn't be criminally charged with anyones death.

Are bob and atak the only other lawyers on POG? With manup in training?

atak went to law school? I thought he just did law school admissions consulting.

i've been in front of a lot of judges, does that count?

so

i went to the bookstore yesterday. i know, but i had a 40% off coupon and i ended up getting No Logo by Naomi Klein and I'm looking forward to that. possible TR imo.

i walk toward the door and ****ing obama is plastered all over the gigantic windows. he's on poasters, on cutouts, the ****ing guy is everywhere. i go inside, this ass hole is on every magazine cover on the newsstand. he's on the cover of half the display books. i half expect this sick **** to jump out from behind a stack of remaindered picture books and cut me down with his cyclopic laser eyes to get at my wallet.

what the **** is wrong with everyone? it's like this mother****er is jesus christ, julius caesar, and julius erving all wrapped up and barcoded.

****

I'm really confused by the fact that you like Naomi Klein but hate Obama.

i think klein does some fantastic journalism, like in the shock doctrine. then inevitably she will start drawing conclusions and making recommendations and be completely wrong about everything. but the journalism is solid.

Ooops. I thought he was a lawyer, because of all the big lawyerly words he uses. Atak, sorry if I insulted you then.

side story on madoff:
the owner of the new england patriots(bob kraft) was interviewed on howard stern recently. howard asked him how he managed to avoid the madoff scam.
he said they had an oppurtunity to invest, and he said his team (financial) looked into it but couldnt understand what was going on,so they advised against it.

So one of the street vendors we passed today was selling "barackwursts"

better than Jesus

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politic...021909.article

people are ****ing stupid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgQgzKVX9jc

My definition is that a violent crime involves a victim that is not yourself (ponzi sheme included of course) whereas a non-violent crime (aka minding your own business like say suicide, smoking crack) does not and thus shouldn't even be a crime.

Completely agree. He pwned the holocaust memorial thingy, that's bound to piss people off.

Or a butterfly in Indonesia.

What if I lost my money due to inflation and government mismanagement? Nothing I can do about that.

Durron's rich friend imo

Reminds me of a certain Austrian dude. I belive I voiced that opinion before.

stupid people are stupider than you could possibly believe.
clever people are cleverer, but my theory is that still the degree of unknowledge and total guessing in the majority of life (case in point: all business decisions) is so much massively larger than anyone admits, and that the world is so utterly results oriented on lol sample size, that, well, i don't know what, but there it is.