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12-17-2008 , 06:27 PM

#3976

Mark_K

Fast Food Value KING

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,282

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverfish1

i'm pretty sure that the auto bailout failed to pass the senate.

But Bush said that he doesn't need no stink'n congress for a bailout.
He's got powerz...

12-17-2008 , 06:50 PM

#3977

Swiitch

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zurvan

The US bailout, in reference to some other fun overspending projects:

From: http://peltiertech.com/WordPress/200...-info-graphic/

Wtf, the Louisiana purchase was an overspend?

12-17-2008 , 07:19 PM

#3978

Zurvan

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The $4T figure is somewhat controversial, but not at all unreasonable. It's interesting to see it compared with all that other good stuff on there.

Also, the canadian government will do an auto bailout if the US does, and might even if you don't (you will). They've already gotten 600M from us in the last couple years, what's another few billion?

12-18-2008 , 06:00 AM

#3979

kokiri

ffermwr moch

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 52,228

even the uk is doing an auto bailout, and we don't even make any cars any more.

(apart from formula one cars and some bespoke sports cars. I don't think they're getting bailed out)

12-18-2008 , 11:13 AM

#3980

riverfish1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zurvan

wtf how is 4trillion reasonable? Thats over 4 times the amount quoted for the bailout. I know the government isn't exactly responsible about overspending but still...

12-18-2008 , 11:25 AM

#3981

Zurvan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by riverfish1

wtf how is 4trillion reasonable? Thats over 4 times the amount quoted for the bailout. I know the government isn't exactly responsible about overspending but still...

Here's Bloombeg's estimates for the total cost of the bailout:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/data?p...d=i0YrUuvkygWs

Note: He comes up with 7 Trillion.

I'm still trying to track down the source of the 4T number, but it's been floating around for at least a month.

12-18-2008 , 11:26 AM

#3982

Zurvan

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The 700B is only the TARP, which is just buying up bad mortgages. They are (and have) done much more than that, like the Citigroup bailout, Fannie/Freddie bailouts, loans to GE, the commercial paper stuff, and so on

12-18-2008 , 06:52 PM

#3983

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,257

So this is an interesting site imo. Example:

Basically the whole site is about recalculating government data without all the fudging and outright lying.

Check out their graph of actual consumer inflation vs the governmnent's statistics.

12-18-2008 , 07:48 PM

#3984

bobman0330

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BLS rebuttal of shadowstats

EDIT: + SS response

Last edited by bobman0330; 12-18-2008 at 07:53 PM.

12-18-2008 , 08:21 PM

#3985

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,257

amp: here is an interesting site
bobman: here is a ****load of completely uninteresting arguments about datasets
amp: hey thanks bobman

12-18-2008 , 09:45 PM

#3986

Mark_K

Fast Food Value KING

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,282

The California legislature today tried to pass an increase in the sales, income, commercial income and gas taxes.

They normally need a 2/3 majority to approve any tax increases. So, the democratically controlled legislature instead called them "fees". They can raise any fee with a simple majority vote.

Arnold terminated it late this afternoon. Whew...

12-18-2008 , 10:32 PM

#3987

amplify

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark_K

Arnold announced he would veto the package, saying it did not go as far as he wanted to stimulate the economy.

wat

12-18-2008 , 10:45 PM

#3988

Mark_K

Fast Food Value KING

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,282

Quote:

Originally Posted by amplify

wat

On the radio this evening, they said he vetoed it. idk.

Yeah, the part you quoted kind of worried me... But his main point was increased "fees" will only hurt the people of CalEEfornia. He said the legislature needs to put together a plan that stimulates job creation..

The fact that he didn't denounce the illegal attempt to raise taxes bothered me.

12-18-2008 , 10:53 PM

#3989

riverfish1

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark_K

its not illegal when you're the majority. Have you learned nothing from politics?

12-18-2008 , 11:04 PM

#3990

amplify

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Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,257

"Kill one man and you are a murderer. Kill millions and you are a conqueror. Kill all and you are a God."
— Jean Rostand

12-19-2008 , 10:08 AM

#3991

riverfish1

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so how exactly is Bush able to create an edict bailing out the auto holders?

This is serious- Bush's constitutional scholars must have some sort of arguement for why he can do this, I'd like to hear what they are. Simply saying "he can't" doesn't help.

12-19-2008 , 10:12 AM

#3992

Zurvan

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As far as I know, Bush has said they'll use TARP money for the auto bailout. That has already been allocated by congress and put under control of the treasury. Bush is in charge of the Treasury.

12-19-2008 , 10:26 AM

#3993

riverfish1

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and wow- it sounds like this money really won't last them much longer than three months and the experts are saying its nowhere near enough to turn things around. Way to screw over the new administration and the Democrats Bush.

And lol at the requirement of paying back the money if the companies are not profitable by March. Like they'll be able to turn things around in 3 months.

12-19-2008 , 10:30 AM

#3994

Zurvan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by riverfish1

lol at the requirement of paying back the money if the companies are not profitable.

"Hey,we're broke and have no cash flow. Give us Billions of dollars"
"OK, but if you don't start making a profit, pay us back."
"Um, sure?"

12-19-2008 , 10:31 AM

#3995

Zurvan

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Also, I have an incredibly snarky comment about Bush doing this to screw the Democrats, but I won't make it, because it misses the point even more than the original comment.

12-19-2008 , 10:41 AM

#3996

Zurvan

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I just read an article that said the requirement was to have a PLAN to return to profitability by March 31, or they have to pay the money back. So, really, it's a gift with no strings attached.

12-19-2008 , 10:49 AM

#3997

bobman0330

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Yahoo News pulled a sick slowroll on me. Their headline was "Paulson: 'Orderly' bankruptcy may be best for automakers" but then I clicked on the link and BAM, "Free monies for car companies"!

12-19-2008 , 11:00 AM

#3998

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverfish1

Bush's constitutional scholars

lol

12-19-2008 , 11:30 AM

#3999

clowntable

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Quote:

And lol at the requirement of paying back the money if the companies are not profitable by March. Like they'll be able to turn things around in 3 months.

Heh, I'm looking at it slightly differently. How about "if they are not profitable, they kinda can't pay the money back."

Obama will have the easiest presidency ever he can just blame every screw up on the financial crisis and every fiscal problem on the household he inherited.
It's almost as easy as saying "yeah well I did free the slaves so suck it"

12-19-2008 , 11:45 AM

#4000

riverfish1

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okay I meant the lol at the requirement of paying the government back if they aren't profitable.

Also- there is some confusion at the moment, from what I understand, about whether or not that has to be profitability or a plan towards profitability. According to CNN it means they have to be able to pay their debts down without assistance from the government by March.

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